Do all fights end up on the ground?
- Thread starter Joab
- Start date
Xinglu
Black Belt
Precisely, say the other guy an all-american class wrestler with a iron jaw. You had better know your ground work if you want to survive.
Omar, do you mean to imply that Judo, Jiu-jitsu, Aikido, Sambo and all other grappling arts are failures because they intend to take their opponent to the ground and finish them there?
Xinglu
Black Belt
Yes, but a hip throw on concrete can really mess an attacker up, and plenty of chokes and breaks can be applied while standing or right after a throw leaving you in a standing position.
I think there is a misconception that grappling arts fight for SD like they do in tourneys or the MMA ring.
Omar B
Senior Master
If you wanna roll around with dudes that's fine man. I said that from my perspective it's a failure. I can't for the life of me wrap my head around going to the ground or allowing yourself to be taken down in a fight. And yes, I have taken judo from the same sensei who taught me karate so I know both sides of the argument. I'm still not ever going to let a fight go to the ground or allow myself to be taken down though.
I used to go around and around with other Kenpo people, when I first came onto this forum. Hey, to each his own, but I find it interesting that people can predict the exact outcome.
Its like I always say...wrestling is taught in many schools and at the college level, MMA is huge, with people joining up at schools all the time. So the odds of facing someone with grappling skills is up there. Now, I'm not saying that I personally would take the fight there, but who the heck knows what'll happen. As you said, I may lose balance, trip, whatever, and end up there.
IMO, a loss is when the person is clueless there, with no means of getting back up.
ATC
Senior Master
As a kid and young adult I was stupid enough to be in way too many fights, and not one ever went to the ground. I have fought bullies, street thugs, wrestlers and other martial artists and not one of them ever went to the ground.
I have had people try to take it there but was always able to keep the fight up until the loser went to the ground and got stomped or pounded until the fight was over.
Real fights are not like you see on UFC or any controlled sport. Once you go to the ground then beating starts with all available. There are no rules to protect you from wild elbow, feet, fist, palm strikes, and hammer fist, not to mention the knees. A real fight is crazy and even if skilled in some MA or training most likely that goes out the window.
The one good thing about being trained or doing a MA that helps you in a real fight is that your body is usually more hardened than that of the person not trained and you should have more endurance stamina. Those are the things that will win you the fight, being able to outlast your opponent.
Most of my fights were wins due to me being faster, stronger, and in better shape than the people that I was fighting. Even the ones that outweighed me and looked like they should win did not due to no conditioning.
Now that I am smarter now I know the best way to win a fight is to not have one at all. Fighting does not pay off and even if you win you lose. Trust me I know, but that is another story.
I have had people try to take it there but was always able to keep the fight up until the loser went to the ground and got stomped or pounded until the fight was over.
Real fights are not like you see on UFC or any controlled sport. Once you go to the ground then beating starts with all available. There are no rules to protect you from wild elbow, feet, fist, palm strikes, and hammer fist, not to mention the knees. A real fight is crazy and even if skilled in some MA or training most likely that goes out the window.
The one good thing about being trained or doing a MA that helps you in a real fight is that your body is usually more hardened than that of the person not trained and you should have more endurance stamina. Those are the things that will win you the fight, being able to outlast your opponent.
Most of my fights were wins due to me being faster, stronger, and in better shape than the people that I was fighting. Even the ones that outweighed me and looked like they should win did not due to no conditioning.
Now that I am smarter now I know the best way to win a fight is to not have one at all. Fighting does not pay off and even if you win you lose. Trust me I know, but that is another story.
Xinglu
Black Belt
I guess you had just better hope no one blindsides you and puts you on the ground. I also hope you are as sure footed as a pack mule because it's not always even ground when you are attacked. I'm just saying that you can't control all the circumstances. What dictates a failure and a success once combat ensues is how the fight ends not how it progressed.
Xinglu
Black Belt
Yup, everyone in the fight is a loser. I concur whole heartedly.
Having been in my fair share of fights as a kid, I'd say about a third went to the ground. One time it was because the kid step out from a corner behind me and took a bat to my legs. Took them right out from under me and fractured my tibia it is really hard to stand with a fractured tibia, let me tell you! Another time, I slipped on sandy concrete (that stuff is pretty slick!). I'm no klutz either, was an athlete growing up, but never once was I in a fight with ideal circumstances!
It is good to have a ground game. Call it emergency preparedness - if you're in a fight things are bad, but if you slip or get knocked down, things are worse and you better know how to cope!
Each and every violent encounter is unique. So some will go to the ground and others will be fought standing up. Bottom line you need to be well rounded and able to work in either situation. So in my mind that means you need to train for both.
(ie. standing and grappling)
I hope that you didn't get the impression, from my posts at least, that I was suggesting that we should go to the ground. A simple look at my past posts, will show that I've said that I've felt that its important to have a ground understanding, that if you end up there, the #1 goal should be to get back to your feet, and that you shouldn't spend time looking for a sub.
What I do find interesting is when you said once it goes down, thats when the beating starts. I'm assuming that you're the one talking about giving the beating? However, keep in mind, that if the shoe was on the other foot, that its important to know how to survive, how to get back up safely.
On the flip side, if it was always so easy to defend the takedown, I find it interesting that so many of the early UFC non grapplers, had such a difficult time defending the takedown. Now, if we look at someone like Chuck, he has some excellent takedown defense, which comes from him having a grappling background.
Xinglu
Black Belt
Omar B
Senior Master
It's called situational awareness man, not gonna happen. This topic is about "do all fights end up on the ground." From my experience, it's never happened to me so no. I also see it as a strategic failure ending up on the ground. I know the waters in this thread are all muddied and people must think that my saying "I" somehow applies to them, but it simply applies to me, my skill level and experience in fights. I've never ended up on the ground, nor do I plan to, it's never even gotten far enough for someone to hit me.
Xinglu
Black Belt
kingkong89
Green Belt
One it depends on how long the fight lasts
second most fights do go to the ground mainly due to the growing popularity to the mma style
second most fights do go to the ground mainly due to the growing popularity to the mma style
I don't think most fights go to the ground, but it can happen... Untrained fighters get nervous when they get hit once and tend to bear hug / clinch / tackle and then roll around on the ground sometimes, guess that's why you see it on youtube vids.
I have been very successful keeping street/bar fights standing, the lack of certain rules used by sporting events make it much easier to punish the would be ground fighter for his attempts, often ending the fight right there.
I was, however, taken by surprise once and slammed on the parking lot pavement pretty hard by a wrestler. It never should have happened but it did. Fortunately, like most grapplers, he started working conventionally and it took only a moment for me to get my hands to areas he never even considered training to protect. That is another great gift MMA schools offer the rest of us; opponents whose training has never even mentioned or considered certain real world options that we drill and ingrain every day.
I think it is a waste of time to work most submission grappling and conventional GNP for self defense, it is of great benefit though, to work your dirty ground fighting-hurry-get-to-your-feet stuff though.
I hear guys all the time at the gym, work etc talk about how "I'll pull guard and choke him out" and I smile and say, few.... one more guy with a false sense of security I don't have to worry about.
I have been very successful keeping street/bar fights standing, the lack of certain rules used by sporting events make it much easier to punish the would be ground fighter for his attempts, often ending the fight right there.
I was, however, taken by surprise once and slammed on the parking lot pavement pretty hard by a wrestler. It never should have happened but it did. Fortunately, like most grapplers, he started working conventionally and it took only a moment for me to get my hands to areas he never even considered training to protect. That is another great gift MMA schools offer the rest of us; opponents whose training has never even mentioned or considered certain real world options that we drill and ingrain every day.
I think it is a waste of time to work most submission grappling and conventional GNP for self defense, it is of great benefit though, to work your dirty ground fighting-hurry-get-to-your-feet stuff though.
I hear guys all the time at the gym, work etc talk about how "I'll pull guard and choke him out" and I smile and say, few.... one more guy with a false sense of security I don't have to worry about.
Stonecold
Orange Belt
Most of the fights that I have seen go to the ground , were drunken fool's trying to be tough guy's at the bar and tripping, falling all over each other or school yard fights ( all inexperenced fighters ) . Working as a bouncer for many years I have been in and seen some very serious fights, most only one person goes to the ground, although there are exceptions to every thing...
blindsage
Master of Arts
This is based on the assumption that most people fighting train typical MMA styles. Bad assumption.
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