Tapping out in a real street fight? will it end here?

[Odin]

a friend of mine broke his flatmates arm because he didnt tap once (not sure if he ment to) we found out later that the guy didnt tap becuase he didnt know what 'tapping' was.lol

But yeah it depends on what lock i have,If im choking someone then he can tap all he wants, I'll let go when he passes out,in all honesty I wouldnt be doing armlocks and stuff like that in a streetfight...............unless I wanted to break the armbut then it would happen to quick of him to think of tapping,just snap and walk away.

 

[MartialIntent]

When confronted by a group, a tap-out can be the sign you're looking for to make your exit [job done, go]. For me, escape in any group situation is paramount, nothing else matters.

But let me ask you all, should a sole hypothetical attacker assault one of your close family [and I of course include BF / GF etc] - in other words, the attacker confronts your group -with whatever motivation- and has brought a wilful intent of physical harm or worse, you successfully intervene: pin or lock, and the attacker taps out. Do you release?

OK, imagine by the time it takes you to intervene, your family member, from the staining to their clothes has apparently been slashed and has gone to the ground either crying in pain or in shock. You have the lock. Do you *still* release?

I think there's a confusion between pathological sadism and natural instinct. I believe this vengeful instinct is something we as humans perenially deny. And further, in a fight situation such as this, "reasonable force" is wholly subjective. It's easy to be judgemental and seek moral high-ground in these cases until one is actually in the situation for real.

Now, your family member is unconscious and bleeding. Even with your attitude of peace and harmony [and that's Aikido for me, it may be simple humanity or Christianity for others] do you release your lock and either risk yourself too - at the very least, allow the perpetrator potential escape with no legal consequence whatsoever, or do you apply full torque and finishing technique?

It's not a B&W issue I know but maybe food for thought.

Respects!

 

[MJS]

Tapping is for training. With SD and grappling the end result is unconsciousness, broken limbs, and/or getting pounded from superior position.

I 2nd that!!! In the ring, when someone taps, the ref is there to break it up, and the action stops. The street, whats to say that the guy isnt going to get back up and continue to attack.

Mike

 

[Makalakumu]

This brings up an ethical question. Lets say that you are attacked and you put someone in a submission and they are begging you to stop hurting them. Do you let them go?

 

[MA-Caver]

This brings up an ethical question. Lets say that you are attacked and you put someone in a submission and they are begging you to stop hurting them. Do you let them go?

I try to follow my (first) sig as best as I can now-a-days. To stop when it's enough... to let them go? The ethics depend upon the circumstances don't they? If it's just a tussel/misunderstanding between friends and it's been made clear (verbally... as well as physically ) that (you) have the upper hand then yeah, but of course be on your guard: friend or foe.
If you see cops/security coming, hold on to them until they're close enough to prevent any retaliatory actions from the guy you're submitting...
Or another possiblity (and it's not that unlikely) that you can sense that this guy is actually a wimp on the inside of that tuff guy exterior and you just put him (back) into his place...
It varies.
Are you an animal or a reasoning, rational, and probably most importantly a compassionate human being? Having the compassion to stop at the thresh-hold of pain but (smart enough) to maintain the hold/lock to remind them of just who exactly is (still) in charge...
I really, really don't like hurting people... but I will not hesitate to do so if they are of mind to do me (or someone else... that I care about) bodily harm. Just how far I will go is ... well, up to them isn't it?

 

[Andrew Green]

You no more need to apply a technique slowly to get a tap then you need to wear big gloves, hit lightly or both.

Submissions is a safe way to practice breaks, tears, dislocations and chokes. They are done slowly and with control to keep your training partners able to train. If you're not in a gym, and not carring about the other guys ability to use his arm the next day he wouldn't have the chance to tap even if he wanted to, locks would be applied with quickly, explosively and with some very bad intentions. Not the slowly increasing pressure in a controlled way until he submits that you get in grappling matches and training.

The question, which I've seen many times just makes no sense. It's like asking if a stand up fighter could be tricked into dropping their hands and returning to their corner by someone yelling "Break!"

 

[bushidomartialarts]

The question, which I've seen many times just makes no sense. It's like asking if a stand up fighter could be tricked into dropping their hands and returning to their corner by someone yelling "Break!"

funnily, i could see that working.

one of the troubles with sparring is that it builds some pretty bad habits. pulling punches. not grabbing on to people. not committing to strikes. for grapplers, it would include not applying your locks quickly or explosively enough. i doubt a tournament fighter would stop moving and drop his hands, but said forcefully enough, he'd pause for a fraction. it's all about reflexes.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for your answers. I enjoy reading all your thoughts on this. I guess when the times comes? We each will have to make a decision base on our instincts. No two situtions will be the same.....again Thank-you and Aloha

 

[Hand Sword]

This brings up an ethical question. Lets say that you are attacked and you put someone in a submission and they are begging you to stop hurting them. Do you let them go?

For real? No! there is no "submissions". You get attacked, defend yourself, and get away! That means disabling your attacker, or beating them down, until no longer a threat, or an escape can be made. I wouldn't recommend any submission techniques, other than a choke out to unconsciousness!

 

[MA-Caver]

For real? No! there is no "submissions". You get attacked, defend yourself, and get away! That means disabling your attacker, or beating them down, until no longer a threat, or an escape can be made. I wouldn't recommend any submission techniques, other than a choke out to unconsciousness!

Yes but even then one must be very careful and in control of themselves to ensure that only unconciousness is achieved without risk of brain damage due to lack of oxygen or restricting blood flow.
Even if the guy had intended severe bodily harm to you and yours a good martialist is always in control and knows when to stop because it's enough that the attacker is now disabled. The guy is on the ground and hurting and no longer a threat to you or yours... you made your point... now walk (or run) away.

 

[swiftpete]

This is something I've thought about. Chokes are some of my favourite techniques but I've wondered how to know when you've choked someone enough to render them unconscious for a short time (enough to get out of the situation) without killing them. Especially in a pressure situation, like a crazed attacker attacking crazily. I have KO'd before, but only with strikes, never taken a choke to unconsciousness, just submission in free grappling.
I just wonder how long you have to hold it after they stop moving before you can leg it? Some of you must have done this before!

 

[Andrew Green]

Once they are out, let them go. It will take them a few seconds to wake up, and a few more to figure out where they are.

 

[RoninPimp]

This is something I've thought about. Chokes are some of my favourite techniques but I've wondered how to know when you've choked someone enough to render them unconscious for a short time (enough to get out of the situation) without killing them. Especially in a pressure situation, like a crazed attacker attacking crazily. I have KO'd before, but only with strikes, never taken a choke to unconsciousness, just submission in free grappling.
I just wonder how long you have to hold it after they stop moving before you can leg it? Some of you must have done this before!

-I haven't choked someone out, but I have been choked out myself at a tournament. I've also seen it a lot in Judo and BJJ tounaments. As soon as they go limp you can let go. In a real situation, I say give it an extra second ot two and then let go. You own them at that point.

 

[Andrew Green]

Here's Randy doing a little choke out of some girl on a radio show:

http://www.thedailycouncil.com/video/girlgetschockedout.wmv

 

[elder999]

This brings up an ethical question. Lets say that you are attacked and you put someone in a submission and they are begging you to stop hurting them. Do you let them go?

It happened to me once:I told him to piss in his pants, or I'd break it; then I let him go. The two times I've choked someone on the street, this happened involuntarily-seems to take some of the fight out of them.

I've been told a story, possibly apocryphal, of an American judoka in the Pacific during WWII. On one of those islands (I want to say Iwo Jima, but I don't recall) he wound up in hand-to-hand combat with a Japanese, who put some sort of hold on him, and let go when he tapped.

Whereupon the American promptly stabbed him.

 

[MJS]

This brings up an ethical question. Lets say that you are attacked and you put someone in a submission and they are begging you to stop hurting them. Do you let them go?

Thats a tough call. That could be a distraction to get you to let them go. Once you loosen up, that could be the beginning of your downfall.

Mike

 

[Hand Sword]

I've seen that many times. Getting the better of someone just gets them angry. If they have a chance to "sneak" you, they will! If it were reverse, they wouldn't let you go, as they targeted you for attack in the first place. Again, no submissions, unless a choke out. Any "hold" will get you Bit, or a kick in the head, by a friend of theirs.

 

[CuongNhuka]

What I train alot of the time is after they tap, I slightly loosen my gripp, and hold for anouther 1-2 seconds. If it was a real fight, it makes it a little easier for me to remember to hold on until the authorities arrive. (ohh muscle memory... magic).

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[Hand Sword]

Don't hold on and wait, leave the scene while you can. If they come and you're still holding on, you're both going down town.

 

[thescottishdude]

in street fights usually what happens is it ends when the opponent stopd fighting. of course, if you kicked them when they're down on the ground they are going to do the same to you for a bit. If you held them in a painful lock they're goingt o hold you in one for a similar amount of time.