Discussing the Middle East and the Conflicts therein

[Andy Moynihan]

The Middle East--Where civilization began and where it shall meet its demise.

 

[seasoned]

Secular, there will always be wars (conflicts), religious, the "plan" unfolds.

 

[CanuckMA]

Another potential solution I have heard of is that of virtual nationality. Statehood has always been tied to land; but there is no reason it has to be. Palestine and Israel could theoretically both be states, both be sovereign, and both occupy the same land. Not easy to do, but it might be possible. Tricky, though.

Name me 2 Arab countries where there are still thriving Jewish communities.

In the end, I do not think Israel wants peace anymore than Palestine does, except under terms that the other will not accept; that's stalemate. Peace will have to be imposed once the world has had enough of their crap.

Then you truly don't know Israel.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Name me 2 Arab countries where there are still thriving Jewish communities.

There have never been virtual nations, so I don't think your question makes any sense.

Then you truly don't know Israel.

No, I don't claim to truly know Israel. However, I do know ******** when I see it. Israel and Palestine claim to want peace, but both set conditions that can never be met by the other side. So neither side wants peace. What do I have to 'truly know' about Israel to know that?

Regardless, let's say I'm wrong and it's Israel that is the poor innocent victim and Palestine the mean old aggressor. So what? My statements still hold true - there will never be peace - never. It must be imposed from the outside, or it will never happen. That should be self-evident to everyone with eyes to see.

 

[CanuckMA]

So tell us, what 'unreasonable' condition should Israel give up?

 

[Tez3]

There have never been virtual nations, so I don't think your question makes any sense.



No, I don't claim to truly know Israel. However, I do know ******** when I see it. Israel and Palestine claim to want peace, but both set conditions that can never be met by the other side. So neither side wants peace. What do I have to 'truly know' about Israel to know that?

Regardless, let's say I'm wrong and it's Israel that is the poor innocent victim and Palestine the mean old aggressor. So what? My statements still hold true - there will never be peace - never. It must be imposed from the outside, or it will never happen. That should be self-evident to everyone with eyes to see.

So, exactly who are the nations that have the qualifications to impose this peace then?

No one has said poor little Israel and big bad Palestinians so to honest I thnk you are belittling all sides in this conflict. The Northern Ireland is being settled, gradually, by both the sides involved, others are helping to mediate but in the end it comes down to both sides being able to to talk. In Israel there are many who are willing to talk,there's some opposition of course, for the Palestinians they have to rid themselves of the Hamas stranglehold on their people who I'm sure will talk and do want peace every bid as much as the Israelii majority do. Theres many factions, many hurdles to get past as it's a far more complicated situation than just Jews v Muslims that you make it out to be.

It's always been said that there will never be peace in Northern Ireland after hundreds of years of conflict ( the Troubles go back far further than many 'outsiders' think) yet it is getting there, the willingness of the people to stop supporting the terrorists is getting stronger by the day and while there are still terrorist attacks the condemnation is more united than ever so to say there will never be peace in the Middle East is disingenous. Both sides have intelligent people who see that the conflict must be settled and in time I believe that these people, as in N Ireland, will win the day.

There is a tendency in the West and among self styled 'civilised' people to patronise those in the Middle East, 'oh those Arabs, they are just children' I've heard from Westerners, and 'the Jews, well you know what they are like' I've heard too, perhaps the best thing would be if the Western 'civilisations' kept their nose out of the Middle East? Ah of course though, that's where the oil comes from so basically the West will never stop interfering with the Arab countries will they,it's less concern for Israel more concern for the oil supplies.

As for the conditions Israel wants to set, read the Declaration of Independance from 1948 where it sets out Israel's hopes and wants, you will find the answer there. For the Palestinians, look past the Hamas propoganda and see what they really want and who's keeping them from it, they want what we want, homes, a future for our children and peace. Look to who's truly wanting the conflict to continue, look deep into the Western countries who only care about oil and selling arms to whoever wants them. Don't patronise either the Arabs or the Jews by insinuating you are better than either and have the right to 'impose' peace on countries and people you know little about.


http://www.workrep.co.uk/news/pne/2010-flotilla_histadrut.html

http://www.caat.org.uk/resources/publications/countries/saudi-arabia-intro.php

http://jfjfp.com/?p=1942

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

http://www.mideastweb.org/mewgroups.htm

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=113829#axzz0qjIA8e9U

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/20/hamas-killings-gaza-human-rights

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/931014-hamas.htm


Free the Palestitians from the terrorist Hamsa, encourage the Islamic nations to actually care about them, give them hope of a future and you will find they will make peace with the Israelis, A good many years ago millions of dollars were set aside for the Palestinian refugees to move to the Bekaa Valley and settle in proper homes but the money intead was kept by the leaders who thought the Palestinians would be more 'valuable' to the cause as homeless refugees.

Look too to the history of Lebanon as well as Syria in this, It's not merely the Israelis v the Palestinians, there's Arab countries who vie sometimes violently with each other for land and power. Altogether a very large complicated problem that won't be solved by sending troops in. Still you reap what you sow, the Allies after the First World War little knew I think what a whirlwind they were sowing when they divided up the Middle East after the war, much better they had left well alone.