Diffrent punches

[hoshin1600]

Yeah, i wont answer that one. (because it usually follows a age question) i am aware fighting isnt like the films

It's not an unreasonable question to ask your age and how long you have been training. It allows us to moderate the complexity and nuance of our answers. Please don't take it the wrong way.
You say you have about 50 hours in training. By contrast some here like myself have thousands of training hours and decades of experience.
The question and conversation is mostly academic. The angles and positions mean nothing to me,, all I want, is to hear something go crunch in the other guys body when I hit him.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

yes the old style sensei would hit you if you didn't move

Helps keep your guard up. Can confess to a increase in guarding if you get whacked in the head when you have it down. (extended family TKD, they arent gentle)

Yeah, its just me. I just like discussing violent things too much im also adamently intrested in weapons how ever dodgy that sounds. i am trying to find places i can get to to teach a full self defence curriculum which isnt just physical skills, like observation scaling force etc.


Im going to give it to yellow belt when i go back though, im willing to see if i can truly agree with the style after that period of time, that seems like a fair amount of time. (or if its not, someone can suggest a belt level/time which would give me enough experience to actually experience it, i think it might be between Yellow and Blue belts.)

Also if one of the TKD people doesnt mind, it isn't just 4 directional punching and blocking in the grading is it?

 

[now disabled]

Helps keep your guard up. Can confess to a increase in guarding if you get whacked in the head when you have it down. (extended family TKD, they arent gentle)

Yeah, its just me. I just like discussing violent things too much im also adamently intrested in weapons how ever dodgy that sounds. i am trying to find places i can get to to teach a full self defence curriculum which isnt just physical skills, like observation scaling force etc.


Im going to give it to yellow belt when i go back though, im willing to see if i can truly agree with the style after that period of time, that seems like a fair amount of time. (or if its not, someone can suggest a belt level/time which would give me enough experience to actually experience it, i think it might be between Yellow and Blue belts.)

Also if one of the TKD people doesnt mind, it isn't just 4 directional punching and blocking in the grading is it?

oh dear I think I can see where this is heading art wise lol

 

[skribs]

There are training methods at my school it tooke teaching for 3 to 4 years before I understood those principles. And this is teaching claas 15+ hours a week. If you expect to understand all the trainingethods by yellow belt you are going to be woefully disappointed.

But as I said - you don't have to do kata. Go take a kickboxing class without kata. Just get instruction, and be dedicated to that instruction. And understand its not 50 hours spread over a year or two that make you a fighter. It's 10 hours a month of class and 20 hours a month practicing on your own for several years that make you a fighter.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

oh dear I think I can see where this is heading art wise lol

Pahahaha, i have evolved into calling it reality based self defence, thank you very much.

(Krav maga is what you are thinking, correct? )

 

[now disabled]

nope try again lol

 

[pdg]

I'll let the TKD guys answer you on their kata and the reasons behind them ...I'd suggest you listen to them as with their ranks they will know the why's and where's

If you want quick answers look in the book, there's an explanation (and even pictures) for each move. You can even look on YouTube where you'll find a "xyz tul* application" for every one.

Those explanations are also what 99% of instructors will tell you.

But, that's not really what they are, the whole concept behind each move or set of moves is something you have to find and make work for yourself.

They aren't to mimic fighting, they're to condition your body and get you used to moving in that way (well, if you do them right anyway).

For instance, a block can be a block - or it can be a strike, or a redirect, or a grab, or a throw, or any combination of them - you won't get those explained to you though because quite honestly you really won't get it. And, what I can make work is different to what someone else can, so the book explanation is what you'll get.

Pretty much a year, even once a week, you'd have easily got up to at least 8th kup if you had the aptitude and dedication (and it matters not if the school handed out white belts, a white belt is what you are).



*Tul = patterns = forms = kata.

 

[pdg]

Also if one of the TKD people doesnt mind, it isn't just 4 directional punching and blocking in the grading is it?

To go from white (10th kup) to yellow stripe (9th kup) it'll be saju jirugi, saju makgi, a few kicks, a bit of fitness testing and some theory questions - at least in our ITF school it is.

That first grading is the absolute bare bones basics.

There are training methods at my school it tooke teaching for 3 to 4 years before I understood those principles. And this is teaching claas 15+ hours a week. If you expect to understand all the trainingethods by yellow belt you are going to be woefully disappointed.

When it clicks depends on the person and how much effort they put in - both in and out of class.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

To go from white (10th kup) to yellow stripe (9th kup) it'll be saju jirugi, saju makgi, a few kicks, a bit of fitness testing and some theory questions - at least in our ITF school it is.

That first grading is the absolute bare bones basics.

I think i could get next tag by next grading if i went back consistently enough. I have the four directional punching an blocking down at least.

Also was the statement about the book directed towards me? Because what book do you personally use?

 

[pdg]

Also was the statement about the book directed towards me? Because what book do you personally use?

Yes it was, mainly.

I have the encyclopaedia of taekwon-do, the 15 volume one - I thought the encyclopaedia of patterns was taken from that, but it could have been abridged further if it doesn't show example applications.

 

[pdg]

Oh, also - you said there's pretty much only TKD available in your town.

What town is it?

If you don't want it public you can pm me, or not, up to you...

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Yes it was, mainly.

I have the encyclopaedia of taekwon-do, the 15 volume one - I thought the encyclopaedia of patterns was taken from that, but it could have been abridged further if it doesn't show example applications.

I got "the encylopedia of taekwondo, volume1" by Stuart Paul Anslow. It doesn't actually go into move for move applications as far as i can see currently.

Town is a no go. I have tried everything i can reliably get to and know about. funnily enough, two TKD's in my town and no karate.

 

[skribs]

I got "the encylopedia of taekwondo, volume1" by Stuart Paul Anslow. It doesn't actually go into move for move applications as far as i can see currently.

Town is a no go. I have tried everything i can reliably get to and know about. funnily enough, two TKD's in my town and no karate.

Is there something other than an east asian martial art? MMA, boxing, krav maga, muay thai, kickboxing, jeet kun do? On Page 1 you mentioned MMA and 2 FMA schools. Are those not options now?

I will say that Taekwondo typically focuses a lot on the movements, and will echo your issue that the applications aren't always apparent. In fact, on the Taekwondo wikis I find, they often describe the exact motion of a technique, but never what it is you are doing with that motion. If that is an insurmountable problem for you, I will refer you back to the idea there are tons of martial arts that have different training philosophies, and you can look at those.

But whatever art you do, you're going to have to consistently show up to class, and understand it will take years before you are no longer a beginner and decades before you are a master.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Is there something other than an east asian martial art? MMA, boxing, krav maga, muay thai, kickboxing, jeet kun do? On Page 1 you mentioned MMA and 2 FMA schools. Are those not options now?

Outside of town which makes it harder to get to. I think there might be a kick boxing in town but it might be basically boxercise. I have it planned to go have a look at them in a couple of months. I asked about the FMA person here because i have two styles to choose from.

I could probably do the patterns easier if i actually had some of the movements given a combative context or a context if its not meant to be applied to fighting, say its more about exercise or something.

 

[skribs]

Outside of town which makes it harder to get to. I think there might be a kick boxing in town but it might be basically boxercise. I have it planned to go have a look at them in a couple of months. I asked about the FMA person here because i have two styles to choose from.

I could probably do the patterns easier if i actually had some of the movements given a combative context or a context if its not meant to be applied to fighting, say its more about exercise or something.

It's useful for learning the stances, learning to apply movement with the techniques (i.e. instead of just punching, moving while punching), and for learning to turn without losing your balance. This will come up later when you work on things like sliding/skipping kicks, back kicks, or fighting while moving side-to-side.

It's also good for making sure you can follow the instructions, i.e. turn the right way with the right leg, and learn to make sure your brain is properly talking to your body. A lot of people have trouble with things like how to turn during a roundhouse kick, how to kick with a back kick, or how to isolate specific muscles and joints when you're refining a technique. The forms help you learn to manage your body.

The way we do forms at my school also help you focus on proper breathing and on patience during your techniques - too many people rush and get sloppy, but our forms teach you to slow down until you've mastered the motion.

There's a lot more reasons to do these, but I won't be able to list them all right now. Some you may agree with, some you may not until much later (if you continue on). Even if you don't like forms, there should be more to your classes than just forms. Use that time to work on your patience and slow down, and then benefit from the instruction in the other areas of the class. Don't ignore the forms. But those shouldn't be the entire class. There should also be work on your techniques, and you'll see over time that you'll learn how to apply them.

As a white belt, you're not ready to learn all the possible applications. You need a foundation to stand on. It's like how you can't learn to read words until you know what the letters are, or how you can't drive without knowing the road signs. As a white and yellow belt, you're not learning how to fight. You're learning how to learn how to fight. You're learning the martial arts vocabulary and foundational elements that will be what you build on when learning to fight.

But don't expect it all to come together until you get your black belt. That's when you will start learning how to fight.

 

[FriedRice]

Im torn on it, the explanation given is it puts your wrist/hand at a weaker angle than a straight punch which is bad if you dont have surgery as a option/want to preserve your hands the best.

That video was horrible though, teaching to not throw hooks with bare knuckles in a fight is just crazy. And I actually do watch their channel for the weapons training, which is excellent. But they don't know much about H2H fighting. In a street fight, if you broke your hand trying to KO the other guy, well then, that's just too bad. You have your other hand, elbows, legs and head left. Or you may be screwed. But it's still better than getting KO'ed instead of throwing that hook(s) that could have ended the fight your way.

The only punch that I wouldn't throw in a street fight is an overhand right. And when I fight bare knuckles, I'm very precise and don't throw full power due to the high possibilities of breaking my hands. Dudes have given up just from getting lit up by jabs.

And if you don't like patterns/forms/kata, then Traditional MA's are a bad choice for you, especially TKD for the primary purpose of Self Defense. TKD is a lot of patterns and lots and lots of fancy kicks. It's very easy for a Boxer to pressure fight a TKD and stay at arms length constantly to prevent kicks from being set up.

 

[FriedRice]

Real sloppy haymaker hook, but it did it's job. This guy def. don't train. It takes a lot to break your hand. Just make your fist tight as a rock.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

That video was horrible though, teaching to not throw hooks with bare knuckles in a fight is just crazy. And I actually do watch their channel for the weapons training, which is excellent. But they don't know much about H2H fighting. In a street fight, if you broke your hand trying to KO the other guy, well then, that's just too bad. You have your other hand, elbows, legs and head left. Or you may be screwed. But it's still better than getting KO'ed instead of throwing that hook(s) that could have ended the fight your way.

The only punch that I wouldn't throw in a street fight is an overhand right. And when I fight bare knuckles, I'm very precise and don't throw full power due to the high possibilities of breaking my hands. Dudes have given up just from getting lit up by jabs.

And if you don't like patterns/forms/kata, then Traditional MA's are a bad choice for you, especially TKD for the primary purpose of Self Defense. TKD is a lot of patterns and lots and lots of fancy kicks. It's very easy for a Boxer to pressure fight a TKD and stay at arms length constantly to prevent kicks from being set up.

Fair enough, i got torn on it when i looked into Filipino boxing and rough and tumble styles of other countries, they included hooks and the like. As for TKD, probably going to do it until i can reliably go to somewhere else. I have a pretty nifty front kick anyway.

 

[pdg]

especially TKD for the primary purpose of Self Defense. TKD is a lot of patterns and lots and lots of fancy kicks. It's very easy for a Boxer to pressure fight a TKD and stay at arms length constantly to prevent kicks from being set up.

TKD for primary self defence?

Yeah, probably not the absolute best choice, certainly not the fastest from a development perspective - at least, not if the actual fisticuffs bit is what you call self defence.

And yes, lots of kicks - but it depends on which TKD you're looking at as to how much you use your hands... For instance, class last night - we probably did about 75% hand techniques, a lot of punches, counters to punches, and using punches to set up kicks. It's not all flicky foot tag

 

[skribs]

Fair enough, i got torn on it when i looked into Filipino boxing and rough and tumble styles of other countries, they included hooks and the like. As for TKD, probably going to do it until i can reliably go to somewhere else. I have a pretty nifty front kick anyway.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a fighting system that DOESN'T include hooks, at least at a higher level. And since you seem to want to focus on punches and lists of punching techniques, styles you find are very likely to include hook punches. You will also receive proper instruction on how to use them.

TKD for primary self defence?

Yeah, probably not the absolute best choice, certainly not the fastest from a development perspective - at least, not if the actual fisticuffs bit is what you call self defence.

And yes, lots of kicks - but it depends on which TKD you're looking at as to how much you use your hands... For instance, class last night - we probably did about 75% hand techniques, a lot of punches, counters to punches, and using punches to set up kicks. It's not all flicky foot tag

Depends on the school, really. A modern TKD school that is mainly Taegeuks and olympic-style sparring won't be much in the way of defense. A more traditional school that gets into the Tang Soo Do and Shotokan Karate roots will be a lot more hand techniques and self defense.