Different Style(s) of Tai Chi Chuan

[Nebuchadnezzar]

My cousin visited the USA SHaolin Temple. ANd it was probably the most overpriced school I ever heard of. It's $120 for KF, but ChiKung, TaiChi are not included, so if you want ChiKung + TaiChi I don't know how much extra it would be. So thats definately out the list and I don't think I would be able to handle such a commercial place anyways. .....

Check this thread regarding the "Shaolin Temple" http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16558

 

[CrushingFist]

Check this thread regarding the "Shaolin Temple" http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16558

THanks so much great info to know now

I don't know what I had told my cousin but I started telling him a lot of stuff about we can more than that, better attention etc for half the price and stuff
So he made his mind about not even going to visit the school, now after reading that thread in budoseek seems true and makes obvious sense what they're saying there

 

[CrushingFist]

Wudangquan
http://www.answers.com/topic/wudangquan

I have never seen Wudang done but if the school is teaching the real deal from my understanding Wudang is very good....

And apparently very colorful too.

There's 1 in Colorado though, and he was in New York
I hope he comes back or something. Or maybe I can try in a Wudang style

btw here's some wudang vids. http://youtube.com/results?search=Wudang&search_type=search_videos check them all if u can

 

[Xue Sheng]

There's 1 in Colorado though, and he was in New York
I hope he comes back or something. Or maybe I can try in a Wudang style

btw here's some wudang vids. http://youtube.com/results?search=Wudang&search_type=search_videos check them all if u can

Wudang is Taoist and just a word of advice, Wudang Tai Chi and Taoist Tai Chi are not necessarily the same thing. There are a few Taoist Tai Chi schools around that are well for lack of a better word fake.

I do no someone that went to Wudang Mountain in China and watched a demo or 2 put on by the priests and he was very impressed.

I believe there may be one in Florida too, but this may be the same one you are talking about that is now in Colorado.

 

[CrushingFist]

Wudang is Taoist and just a word of advice, Wudang Tai Chi and Taoist Tai Chi are not necessarily the same thing. There are a few Taoist Tai Chi schools around that are well for lack of a better word fake.

I do no someone that went to Wudang Mountain in China and watched a demo or 2 put on by the priests and he was very impressed.

I believe there may be one in Florida too, but this may be the same one you are talking about that is now in Colorado.

I think 1 of his students of the guy thats in Colorado is the one down in Florida.

Yea I just finish reading that Shaolin stuff and its true. SOmething just happened now.

Diaz:I got your letter. please call my phone

510)451-1872 I well give you some information.

qiangya liang <[email protected]> wrote:


Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:27:37 -0400
From: "ROBINSON DIAZ" <[email protected]>
Subject: Hi
To: <[email protected]>


Hi Sifu Liang

I am very interested in your Fu style Bagua, Taiji and Liang-Yi . But unfortunately I don't live in CA. I was hoping to learn more from you and hear some recommendation. Is there Wudang in America? Do you have any contacts of wudang in new york? How about all these schools teaching Bagua, Xingiyi and Tai Chi Chuan that doesnt mean they are part of wudang right? If so what is really wudang and what styles can i look for to learn wudang. Also since I see your website being Wudang Boxing this means you teach Wudang styles?

Thank You so much look forward from hearing from you
Best Regards,
Robinson Diaz

I just finish calling receiving a replied message from Qiangya Liang or Sifu Liang who i emailed. I called him and yes we couldnt communicate well at all its ok I understand why, but I asked him if he knew anyone in New York, and he said so you want to train . what is your teacher . I dont have one i replied. ahhh .. ok.. $50 to train with me for one hour. then he askes is too much money ? I replie I dont know I was just trying to get information as you said you would give me, but I'll call you back. Take Care

So I don't know if it's me or I'm getting the feeling with all due respect all teachers out there and here. That it seems $$$ in the first thing. I don't know but I feel like people are just teaching to make a living out of it, but I'm no one to judge so this is just my personal thoughts please help me here.

 

[CrushingFist]

Something I found on MartialArtsNy.com on Yangjia Michuan just wanted to added it in .

"Fundamental characteristics of the Hidden Tradition (Michuan) include clear martial applications throughout the form, "push hands" exercises that help to develop strength and flexibility, and the emphasis upon Neigong, the Taoist art of breathing. These important elements are coordinated with form study from the first day of practice."

 

[Xue Sheng]

So I don't know if it's me or I'm getting the feeling with all due respect all teachers out there and here. That it seems $$$ in the first thing. I don't know but I feel like people are just teaching to make a living out of it, but I'm no one to judge so this is just my personal thoughts please help me here.

Most unfortunately this is not far from true. My Tai Chi Sifu had no interest in money in the first 9 years of training with him. But the last 3, as he approaches retirement from his full time job he changed. He stopped teaching depth, form corrections and martial applications in order to gain more students. Sadly he did gain more students but lost all of his advanced students.

My first Sifu was strictly a forms guy from China (Wushu) but he was a stickler for correct form 12 years ago. In a recent visit to his school I saw a lot of students, but very very sloppy form.

There are Sifus out there that are truly looking to teach the art and some are understandable interested in money, they have to live too, and some are not.

I recently went to a workshop with William CC Chen and I was very impressed with what he was teaching. It was Cheng Manching Tai Chi but he was teaching push hands and martial application. And he was relating those applications and training to Sanahou matches.

I believe his school is in NYC; you might want to check him out. His son also teaches there and his son trains Tai Chi with his father and is a very successful international Sanshou competitor as is his daughter.

 

[CrushingFist]

Most unfortunately this is not far from true. My Tai Chi Sifu had no interest in money in the first 9 years of training with him. But the last 3, as he approaches retirement from his full time job he changed. He stopped teaching depth, form corrections and martial applications in order to gain more students. Sadly he did gain more students but lost all of his advanced students.

My first Sifu was strictly a forms guy from China (Wushu) but he was a stickler for correct form 12 years ago. In a recent visit to his school I saw a lot of students, but very very sloppy form.

There are Sifus out there that are truly looking to teach the art and some are understandable interested in money, they have to live too, and some are not.

I recently went to a workshop with William CC Chen and I was very impressed with what he was teaching. It was Cheng Manching Tai Chi but he was teaching push hands and martial application. And he was relating those applications and training to Sanahou matches.

I believe his school is in NYC; you might want to check him out. His son also teaches there and his son trains Tai Chi with his father and is a very successful international Sanshou competitor as is his daughter.

True.

But if I do Tai Chi I think I'll go for the Yangjia Michuan. I felt comfortable there, everyone there is just kind and everyone just doing their stuff. And from day 1 we did push hands. Everyone there has their own job so this is not a income for them. Infact, they teach at the YMCA so basically the Y pays the teacher. And I've heard of this guy 3-4yrs ago I should of went there long time ago I would of been very different. The class is rather not larger than 20 ppl when I was there maybe 13 ppl I think and the space is huge. The Y offers discounts to students and your able to do anything within the Y for about $55 a month (Gym, Tai Chi, etc) . I think that price is unbeatable. But you know I'm still researching certain things

 

[CrushingFist]

Something I found on MartialArtsNy.com on Yangjia Michuan just wanted to added it in .

This vigorous and complete martial arts system, which includes basic exercises, the 13 postures (an introductory form), a one hour long form (127 postures), push hands, push hand exercises, and numerous weapons forms, as well as a deep foundation in neigong breathing practice, is taught world wide.

 

[CrushingFist]

This vigorous and complete martial arts system, which includes basic exercises, the 13 postures (an introductory form), a one hour long form (127 postures), push hands, push hand exercises, and numerous weapons forms, as well as a deep foundation in neigong breathing practice, is taught world wide.

Here's more for those of you who don't know of Yangjia Michuan or never heard of it.

Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan
(Yang Family Hidden Tradition Taiji or T'ai Chi)
from Yang Luchan to Wang Yen-nien The American Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan Association (AYMTA) was founded in the early 1990's in California by Akai Jong, Julia Fisher-Fairchild and Wang Yen-nien. It is a non-profit organization with the purpose of perpetuating Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan (YMT) as taught by Wang Yen-nien, fourth generation master.

Taijiquan (or, in Wade Giles romanization, T'ai-Chi Ch'uan), has its roots in traditions that go back thousands of years. One version of its beginning is that Zhang Sanfeng, a Taoist monk, was watching a crane and a snake battle and was struck by the way that they used deception and body movements to evade the attacks of each other. Finally exhausted from the even contest the two creatures left. Sanfeng, though, was left with thoughts that led to development of the early basics of taijiquan .



Full article:
AYMTA

 

[CrushingFist]

So there are Yang, Chen, Wu, Sun.

What is Yang known for? Chen ? Wu and Sun ?
Since these are the 5 major and most likely to be found in my area.

I just found out there are 2 types of Wu's.

Other than that I'm lost

 

[CrushingFist]

Quoted from http://www.answers.com/topic/wu-style-t-ai-chi-ch-uan

The Wu style's distinctive hand form, pushing hands and weapons trainings emphasise parallel footwork and horse stance training with the feet relatively closer together than the modern Yang or Ch'en styles, small circle hand techniques (although large circle techniques are trained as well) and differs from the other T'ai Chi family styles martially with Wu style's initial focus on grappling, throws, wrestling and other groundfighting technique; tumbling, jumping, footsweeps, pressure point leverage and joint locks and breaks, which are trained in addition to more conventional T'ai Chi sparring and fencing at advanced levels. Although historically derived from the Yang style, the Wu style has a unique appearance to observers and seems to share some features with Sun style, due to the long collaboration between Wu Chien-ch'&#252;an and Sun Lu-t'ang. Another significant feature of Wu style training is its routinely placing the body's weight 100% on the yang or full leg, 0% on the yin or empty leg in forms and pushing hands, and maintaining a straight line of the spine from the top of the head to the heel of the rear foot when it is at an angle to the ground; an "inclined plane" alignment intended to extend the practitioner's reach. Other styles of T'ai Chi (with a few notable exceptions) train this leaning occasionally in their forms and pushing hands, but not as systematically as the Wu style does.

This is an example of what I'm looking to find out about other TJ styles. And then I'll move into Xingyi and Bagua

But also what about the difference with Wu/hao and Wu style? then

 

[Xue Sheng]

Historic Founder Chang San-Feng (Taoist)

Chen, Yang, Zhao Bao, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun and there is a Li style as well. Not to mention several others I cannot remember the names of or I don’t know the names of. There can be big differences as well as similarities between the family forms

Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun are the 5 families recognized by the Chinese government as Tai Chi Families. I recently heard that they may have just recognized Zhao Bao as well.

Chen family came first (if you believe the Chen family history, but it was before the other family styles) Chen has and still teaches both Old frame and new frame and has lower stances than Yang style. I have to admit I like Chen; it still has obvious applications, Qin Na and fajing in the forms. Current family head is Chen Zhenglei. He is very good and very skilled.

Yang came from Chen
The most popular style today is Yang from the Yang Cheng Fu line. However there is another line, not as widely practiced that comes from Yang Chengfu's older brother Yang Shouhou (also spelled Yang Shao-hou) and uncle Yang Binhou (also spelled Yang Pan-hou). Yang Chengfu changed the form by removing the much fajing and Qin Na. However he did create a fast form (Yes there are fast forms in Tai Chi)
Current head of family style is Master Yang Zhen Duo and I believe the next in line is his grandson Master Yang Jun.

Zhao Bao came from Chen and is very cool, very low, very powerful

Wu Came from Yang, Pre Yang Cheng Fu

Wu/Hao also came from Yang, also pre Yang Chengfu

Sun Came from Wu/Hao. But the founder of Sun was considered a master of Xingyi and Bagua. There is a very good Xingyi book by the Sun founder Sun Lu Tang. Just as a side note Sun Lu Tang daughter and Sun style family head just died last year.

Zhao Bao is very rare and hard to find it may or may not be a combination of Chen and some other martial art from Zhao village. But it historically comes from a Chen family member.

Li style I have never seen, but it is also a combination of Tai Chi and other martial arts like Sun style.

Dong Style is from Tung Ying Chieh, a student of Yang Chengfu. However I do not think Sifu Tung ever called what he taught Dong style. I believe that came from either his son or grandson. Tung Ying Chieh added a second fast form and possibly a second straight sword and broad sword (da dow) form as well. Sifu Tung allegedly studied Wu/Hao prior to studying with Yang Chengfu and there are even some references that he may have studied with Yang Shouhou prior to studying with Yang Chengfu

Be very careful about Yang style classes or any Tai Chi classes for that matter. Many are not the full family forms. If the Yang class is in Yang 24 and 48 it is not traditional Yang. These are government competition forms. Most unfortunately all the 5 families have government competition forms. These forms are not generally taught be the families. Also depending on what you are after with Tai Chi, health and fitness, martial arts or both. It may be difficult to find an actual Martial Tai Chi School. Most are now for relaxation and health. However Zhao Bao I doubt has gone that root yet. Yang certainly has, Chen may be and I am not sure about Wu, Wu/Hao or Sun. By the way traditional Sun is also rare.

Also lineage is a good thing but not the end all be all of a good teacher. I know of bad teachers with good lineages and good teachers with less direct lineages. But in general lineage can be a good thing.


Links of interest
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/styles.html

List of Tai Chi Chuan forms
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-tai-chi-chuan-forms?method=22

Chen style
http://www.answers.com/Chen%20style%20Tai%20Chi%20Chuan

Yang Style
http://www.answers.com/Yang%20style%20Tai%20Chi%20Chuan

http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/

Wu/Hao Style
http://www.answers.com/Wu%2FHao%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Wu Style
http://www.answers.com/Wu%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

http://www.wustyle.com/

Sun Style
http://www.answers.com/Sun%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Tchoung Style (this is a new one on me)
http://www.answers.com/Tchoung%20style%20Tai%20Chi%20Chuan

Dong Style
http://www.dongtaichi.com/

Tai Chi History
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/history.html

And here is another one

Sun family
International Sun Tai Chi Association
http://www.suntaichi.com/news.html

Not that I am into quoting myself but didn't I answer this already?

And there are the following families that are recognized by the Chinese government: Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu/hao, Sun, Zhaobao

But there are many other Tai Chi styles, Fu, He, etc.

One big differnce between Wu and Wu/Hao is that the stances are lower in one of them, I believe Wu is lower that Wu/hao, but I am not 100% sure on that one.

 

[CrushingFist]

I was seeing a Zhao Bao being practiced boy do they get low in the floor.
also the chebucto.ns.ca website don't say much or nothing at all in their difference. and after you click anywhere it doesnt work

Thanks once again

 

[CrushingFist]

Been reading so far on Wu, Wu/Hao, Yang, Chen, Sun.

Only info that talked about its training or stuff was Wu really.

But I liked a bit

Wu style,

Xin Jia Chen,

Traditional Yang of Lu-Chan and his family style , http://www.nytaichi.com/hwon.htm

Also Yangjia Michuan (Hidden Tradition) Lu-Chan, Jianhou, Zhang Qinlin, Wang Yen-nien lineage. www.aytma.org

Didn't get enough information to learn more about Wu/Hao, or Sun.

But I'll definately add SUn to the list since it talks about Sun's founder knowing already Xingyi & Pakua and later learning Taiji which can be quite interesting to see what it has from these 3 styles.

Also I just finish reading about DanTao school in NYC which I am interested in now. http://www.sathon.net/ What you guys think?

 

[Kensai]

Right. My turn. I've located a school near me, beginners course, introductory, come and have a look, train first few lessons for free, get a feel kinda thing. It's Sun style from what I can make out, now I've checked various threads/posts, but I still don't know enough about the differences yet, so can anyone educate me as to what I can expect in Sun style?

Regards,

Kensai :asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Right. My turn. I've located a school near me, beginners course, introductory, come and have a look, train first few lessons for free, get a feel kinda thing. It's Sun style from what I can make out, now I've checked various threads/posts, but I still don't know enough about the differences yet, so can anyone educate me as to what I can expect in Sun style?

Regards,

Kensai :asian:

I have never done Sun style so I cannot tell you much about it beyond
Sun style was developed by Sun Lutang after he studies Xingyi, Bagua and I believe Wu/hao Tai Chi. Sun Lutang was also considered a rather talented Martial Artist.

These may help

Sun Style
http://www.answers.com/Sun%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Sun family
International Sun Tai Chi Association
http://www.suntaichi.com/news.html

 

[Kensai]

I have never done Sun style so I cannot tell you much about it beyond
Sun style was developed by Sun Lutang after he studies Xingyi, Bagua and I believe Wu/hao Tai Chi. Sun Lutang was also considered a rather talented Martial Artist.

These may help

Sun Style
http://www.answers.com/Sun%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Sun family
International Sun Tai Chi Association
http://www.suntaichi.com/news.html

Nice one mate, thanks for that. Will have a more in depth look when I'm not at work... Can you believe it, they're actually making me do something today... What's that about?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Nice one mate, thanks for that. Will have a more in depth look when I'm not at work... Can you believe it, they're actually making me do something today... What's that about?

WORK!!!! You have got to get a government job like I have. :uhyeah:

 

[Kensai]

WORK!!!! You have got to get a government job like I have. :uhyeah:

Yeah, that'd be cushty. Except for the fact that I trust the British govt about as much as a cat left alone with a goldfish bowl. :asian: