Defending oneself (or others) in a holy place

[Tez3]

You can't get people into church much here let alone with guns.

 

[jks9199]

Yeah, but you said to ask him, on some assumption of what the bishop might say.

Fact is, there is no formal doctrine in the Catholic church for bearing arms within church.

Fact also is, several diocese and other authorities are examining the utility of having armed people in church, in light of events like those I posted in Colorado Springs. In fact, I'd be surprised if more than few Catholic priests weren't going armed, in light of some of the more sordid history of some of their membership-had a Catholic priest killed around this way, allegedly for something like that a few years back.....

Fact is, if he hasn't been told, and he hasn't asked, and he isn't telling, then it's between him and God, like I said..

Actually, I know one priest who DOES have a CCW. Whether he carries during Mass -- or ever -- is his business, but I do know that he obtained a CCW.

 

[morph4me]

Actually, I know one priest who DOES have a CCW. Whether he carries during Mass -- or ever -- is his business, but I do know that he obtained a CCW.

I'm guessing he isn't the type to turn the other cheek.

 

[Carol]

I'm guessing he isn't the type to turn the other cheek.

He may be fine with turning th other cheek, but may not be willing to do so with the heart, lungs or other vital organs

 

[elder999]

I'm guessing he isn't the type to turn the other cheek.

Sure he is....three times, maybe...but no more.

 

[KenpoTex]

Actually, I know one priest who DOES have a CCW. Whether he carries during Mass -- or ever -- is his business, but I do know that he obtained a CCW.

I know of several ministers (various denominations) that have CCWs and are armed while they're delivering the sermon...

As to the original topic of the thread...

If I or someone who I feel the need to protect are threatened, I will use whatever level of force is necessary to neutralize the threat. This could be anything from verbal tactics, to restraint/control techniques, to deadly force depending on the circumstances.

The degree/amount of damage that the assailant/bad-guy/whatever will suffer is going to depend on his actions and whether or not he's willing to be reasonable.

 

[thardey]

My pastor specifically asked me to carry my gun in church. We also have many off-duty police officers who attend, and they all are encouraged to carry.

It's not a matter of martyrdom, it's a matter of protecting people from the lone madman who decides it's his job to punish innocent people for his own hurts and insecurities.

If it became (God Forbid) illegal in the US to go to church other than a "State-sponsored" religion, then we're looking at martyrdom, and different steps are needed. In the US, true martyrdom is virtually impossible.

Many of the people we are taught to look up to in the Bible, (while being fully aware of their mistakes) used violent actions to defend "the sheep" from predators.

 

[BanannaSmoothie]

wow, you guys are pretty cool. i'm a bit of an asshat. i would just knock out both guys, toss them out in the parking lot and let them settle it there.

my dad is a fan of what he calls coconut complience exersize. he has used it with great success on his farm with snot nosed politicians kids looking for summer work.

grab the 2 bickering yentas by the backs of their heads, knock the 2 forheads together with some balls behind it, let them both fall to the floor dazed and confused. ask if they still want to fight. if the answer is yes, they both get fired and are free to fight all day long.

but, im a bit of a no nonsense butthole with it comes to stuff like that.

 

[Tez3]

I must admit to being quite shocked really, it sounds as if the Wild West is still alive and kicking. I never imagined people would take guns to church nor that they would need to. Lost for words......

 

[Kreth]

I must admit to being quite shocked really, it sounds as if the Wild West is still alive and kicking. I never imagined people would take guns to church nor that they would need to. Lost for words......

Ahem.

 

[girlbug2]

There is no such thing as a safe haven. Violence can and does happen in church just as in any other place.

I would defend myself and my family the same in church as anywhere else.

 

[elder999]

There is no such thing as a safe haven. .

Not quite true. There is one absolutely safe place on Earth.......

,,,,,the grave.

 

[Kreth]

Not quite true. There is one absolutely safe place on Earth.......

,,,,,the grave.

Unless you fall victim to a necrophiliac. :lol:

 

[Tez3]

Ahem.

That's a church hall not a church, two different things here and it was after a karate lesson there. A church hall isn't a sacred or sanctified place, it's a community centre used for karate, scouts, whist drives etc.

 

[Lisa]

I must admit to being quite shocked really, it sounds as if the Wild West is still alive and kicking. I never imagined people would take guns to church nor that they would need to. Lost for words......

I think sometimes what we read situations that are foreign to ourselves we perceive them to be a lot different then they really are. 99% of the time you would never know who carries and who doesn't. Its not like everyone saddles up in church and exposes their guns for everyone to see. I think you have just as much of a chance of needing your gun in church as you would anywhere else. The need to defend yourself or a loved one is not lessened by the presence of a cross or a picture of Jesus Christ.

 

[Kreth]

That's a church hall not a church, two different things here and it was after a karate lesson there. A church hall isn't a sacred or sanctified place, it's a community centre used for karate, scouts, whist drives etc.

That wasn't my point. I just took a random article I found when googling "uk church shooting" and pasted a link. To be honest, I didn't do more than skim the article. My point was that shootings can and do happen everywhere, even in a country that has disarmed its citizens. However do those pesky criminals get guns?

 

[Tez3]

That wasn't my point. I just took a random article I found when googling "uk church shooting" and pasted a link. To be honest, I didn't do more than skim the article. My point was that shootings can and do happen everywhere, even in a country that has disarmed its citizens. However do those pesky criminals get guns?

We haven't disarmed our citizens, a great many British people have weapons, legally and I can tell you exactly where those people in Liverpool got those guns from. They came from NORAID, the American supporters of the IRA . Those supporters raised money to arm the IRA, guns were bought in America and then smuggled in for the Provos use, whose commanders then gave them to the ASUs in Liverpool, where there was traditional strong support for the Provos. With the decommissioning of the IRA these weapons were sold on to criminals or kept by former ASU members who then engaged in criminal activities.

 

[Kreth]

We haven't disarmed our citizens, a great many British people have weapons, legally and I can tell you exactly where those people in Liverpool got those guns from. They came from NORAID, the American supporters of the IRA . Those supporters raised money to arm the IRA, guns were bought in America and then smuggled in for the Provos use, whose commanders then gave them to the ASUs in Liverpool, where there was traditional strong support for the Provos. With the decommissioning of the IRA these weapons were sold on to criminals or kept by former ASU members who then engaged in criminal activities.

And there we have it. The US is to blame for all gun crime, world-wide. ****ing cowboys.

 

[Tez3]

And there we have it. The US is to blame for all gun crime, world-wide. ****ing cowboys.

No, there is a specific group who are responsible for a certain amount of guns being available in the UK. To say otherwise is to put words into my mouth. These people fundraised in all sort of homely ways to raise money for weapons and explosives which killed many of my friends and colleagues including my fiance. They raised the money which paid for this lot.........


http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/major_killings.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_City_Centre_bombing

 

[Kreth]

No, there is a specific group who are responsible for a certain amount of guns being available in the UK. To say otherwise is to put words into my mouth. These people fundraised in all sort of homely ways to raise money for weapons and explosives which killed many of my friends and colleagues including my fiance. They raised the money which paid for this lot.........

Which leads us back to my point, shootings happen everywhere, not just in the "Wild West" US.