Debate on the existence of Chi

[RoninPimp]

So basically you are looking for an argument, not agreement or a solution or understanding, just an argument. This is what I suspected.

"If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes."

They cure infection with it? Yes very well actually, do some reading on it, expand your narrow view of the world

Or cancer? Occasionally as does western medicine

Mend bones? Yup regularly

That is what definition #2 is referring to. They have repeatable medical results. You are obviously grossly uneducated in TCM and have no desire to learn.

Just to assist you on your road of denial; repeatable medical results. It doesn't fit those definitions the Chinese have had repeatable results in their medicine for thousands of years

Your view is correct to you no matter how much proof you get to the contrary. You are looking to win, force your opinions on others and that is it.

And no I am not going to waste my time supplying proof to you because it would be a complete waste of my time to do so. Do some reading on your own from reliable sources, it is not my job to educate you on the subject.

China is one of the most populated countries in the world with lower incidents of cancer than the US. Western medicine has only been there for a very short time and they have had great success with TCM for thousands of years prior to Western medicine arrival. Western medicine and Western science do not the world make.

I tried to work with you, but you only wish to argue, and I will no longer waste my time discussing anything with you. Now go ahead cry for the moderators to intervene and give me another bad rep point, except this time at least admit you did it. This is the wonderful world of the web, it truly doesn’t matter at all.

"Sorry, but this is not the right room for an argument."
"You want room 12A, just along the corridor."



And this is a gross over statement. You do not have any understanding of TCM at all.

And even if it were true, you are still arguing the point as if you are an expert, which you are not.

And am I an expert? no,

Do I have access to someone that is? Yes. Possibly one of the top 10 authorities on the subject in this country and very highly regarded in China were it counts.



And if you bothered reading my Previous thread, which you obviously didn’t, you would have seen I have already addressed this issue.

See ya
Thank you drive through
Have a nice day.

-No, I don't really care about TCM. I never claimed to be an expert in TCM. This thread nor the original one was about TCM. TCM does not cure cancer or the TCM practicioners are about to revolutionize medicine in the entire world. TCM's ability to set broken bones is not because of chi, reguardless of the TCM metaphysical explanation. My only point was that chi has not been proven using the scientific method. This fact remains true. Due to the nature of science, this is subject to change.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Then I guess you know something that the Chinese don't. Based on numerous articles, as well as a few books that I've read surrounding the practice of Qigong, there may be a TCM based cure for some cancers, as well as many other diseases, Many of those treatments involve chi.

It may not show up on a "chi-detector", but it, like so many other things that Western Science cannot explain, exists.


How Chi Gong Works on Cancer
[Excerpt from Paul Dong's book, Chi Gong: The Ancient Chinese Way to Health, Paul Dong and Aristide H. Esser, 1990, Marlowe and Company]
http://www.healthyfoundations.com/guolin_article.html

Can Yoga Help Cure Cancer?
Expanding upon Western understanding of the importance of flow, yoga may soon be an accepted alleviator of the pain and mental stress of cancer.
http://www.californiapsychics.com/features/article.aspx?ContentID=64

Deploy Internal Medicine to Cure Cancer
http://www.damo-qigong.net/cancer.htm

Qi Gong: The Power to Cure Cancer
By Wen Mei Yu and Theresa Marie Hoff
http://www.cfwenterprises.com/article.asp?s=cfw&mimid=DJQ575FTXDWJ8M8NW3JLFBVDW9KGDS57&content_id=34

 

[RoninPimp]

Then I guess you know something that the Chinese don't. Based on numerous articles, as well as a few books that I've read surrounding the practice of Qigong, there may be a TCM based cure for some cancers, as well as many other diseases, Many of those treatments involve chi.

It may not show up on a "chi-detector", but it, like so many other things that Western Science cannot explain, exists.


How Chi Gong Works on Cancer
[Excerpt from Paul Dong's book, Chi Gong: The Ancient Chinese Way to Health, Paul Dong and Aristide H. Esser, 1990, Marlowe and Company]
http://www.healthyfoundations.com/guolin_article.html

Can Yoga Help Cure Cancer?
Expanding upon Western understanding of the importance of flow, yoga may soon be an accepted alleviator of the pain and mental stress of cancer.
http://www.californiapsychics.com/features/article.aspx?ContentID=64

Deploy Internal Medicine to Cure Cancer
http://www.damo-qigong.net/cancer.htm

Qi Gong: The Power to Cure Cancer
By Wen Mei Yu and Theresa Marie Hoff
http://www.cfwenterprises.com/article.asp?s=cfw&mimid=DJQ575FTXDWJ8M8NW3JLFBVDW9KGDS57&content_id=34

Repeatable results using the scientific method???

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Chinese Scientific Method? Probably.
Why don't you open your mind and read the articles?

 

[RoninPimp]

Chinese Scientific Method? Probably.
Why don't you open your mind and read the articles?

-The Chinese have their own scientific method that differs from the rest of the scientific community? I don't think so...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Considering that their system of science predates that of the West....
And their system of medicine as well....

 

[Captain Harlock]

I have lurked long and watched this debate unfold. The ignorance of some is offensive to one who has walked the path far longer than they have been drawing breath.

The Chinese system of medicine is far older than that of the West. It's concepts have been field tested for centuries. It's principals have healed illness and disease for centuries. To dismiss it or it's components because one cannot read it on a meter, or somehow document it according to the limited and primitive means that such a limited mind may comprehend is simply proof of such a limited mind.

There are many things that the West cannot measure, or explain. Yet you accept them without question. Do you truly not believe, or are you simply here to cause unrest, This One wonders.

http://www.acupuncture.com/
http://qi-journal.com/
http://tcm.health-info.org/

Much of what you need to know is there.
I pity you. Your cup is full. Worse yet, you have it sealed.

Empty your cup.

Chi exists, as certain as the universe itself.

 

[RoninPimp]

Considering that their system of science predates that of the West....
And their system of medicine as well....

Chinese history is a rich and wonderful thing, but it is not the issue. You fail to realize that there is one and only one scientific method.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Some things cannot be analysed by the western method.
That is why there are other methods.
You fail to accept that.

 

[RoninPimp]

Some things cannot be analysed by the western method.
That is why there are other methods.
You fail to accept that.

-I accept that there may be people investigating unexplained phenomenon. That does not constitute scientific proof of chi. Why do you refuse to accept this fact?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Because I don't subscribe to a narrow singular view of science.

 

[terryl965]

-I accept that there may be people investigating unexplained phenomenon. That does not constitute scientific proof of chi. Why do you refuse to accept this fact?

RoninPimp let me ask you a question in every post you want every one to agree with you why are you all in mighty, do you not have the insight to be able to see what you do not understand. For myself whether or not if I believe does not matter, what matters to me is whether I can open my mind to see if it is a possibility. People thought the world was flat, but yet is is round, people thought we could not go into space but yet we sent a machine to mars, people say they pyramids was created by aliens, who's knows. The point is it does not matter whether you believe or not just that you can accept the possibilities of it. I know I'm openng myself up for you and I said I was not getting involved, but you just need to open one eye to see other points of views you are not the all and mighty last word on every subject on this forum.
Have a nice day.
Terry

 

[RoninPimp]

Because I don't subscribe to a narrow singular view of science.

-That makes no sense. You seem to not understand what science is.

 

[RoninPimp]

RoninPimp let me ask you a question in every post you want every one to agree with you why are you all in mighty, do you not have the insight to be able to see what you do not understand. For myself whether or not if I believe does not matter, what matters to me is whether I can open my mind to see if it is a possibility. People thought the world was flat, but yet is is round, people thought we could not go into space but yet we sent a machine to mars, people say they pyramids was created by aliens, who's knows. The point is it does not matter whether you believe or not just that you can accept the possibilities of it. I know I'm openng myself up for you and I said I was not getting involved, but you just need to open one eye to see other points of views you are not the all and mighty last word on every subject on this forum.
Have a nice day.
Terry

-I have stated a dozen times on this thread that science is subject to change. Chi may some day be explained scientificaly. It has not to date been.

 

[Captain Harlock]

Or perhaps your view of the world is simply too narrow to understand.

I will waste no more words that this on you. You are incapable of comprehending them.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

-That makes no sense. You seem to not understand what science is.

Science: "the study of the natural world"
Also: "systemized knowledge derived through experimentation, observation, and study. Also, the methodology used to acquire this knowledge."
Also: "The body of related courses concerned with knowledge of the physical and biological world and with the processes of discovering and validating this knowledge."

It would seem that in 1,000 years, that the Chinese would have done actions that would fit those definitions. That their methods in healing and health that surround the concept known as "Chi", would have been arrived on based on experimentation, observation, and study. After all, when one sees "Dr. Wu" and he sticks you in the butt with a couple of needles, he is doing so on points that have long been charted, examined and the results reproduced, over centuries by numerous educated individuals. Not just random jabs in the fat.

It's science. It's Scientific.

 

[RoninPimp]

Or perhaps your view of the world is simply too narrow to understand.

I will waste no more words that this on you. You are incapable of comprehending them.

-You're entitled to you opinion. But I didn't really ask for your opinion of my "view of the world".

Back to the thread topic...Do you also refuse to concede the fact that chi is unproven scientifically?

 

[RoninPimp]

Science: "the study of the natural world"
Also: "systemized knowledge derived through experimentation, observation, and study. Also, the methodology used to acquire this knowledge."
Also: "The body of related courses concerned with knowledge of the physical and biological world and with the processes of discovering and validating this knowledge."

It would seem that in 1,000 years, that the Chinese would have done actions that would fit those definitions. That their methods in healing and health that surround the concept known as "Chi", would have been arrived on based on experimentation, observation, and study. After all, when one sees "Dr. Wu" and he sticks you in the butt with a couple of needles, he is doing so on points that have long been charted, examined and the results reproduced, over centuries by numerous educated individuals. Not just random jabs in the fat.

It's science. It's Scientific.

-Research to see if chi exists could certainly be called science. The fact remains that its existance is unproven. Why does this fact bother you so much?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A lot of things are unproven by so called science. That doesn't bother me at all, as I subscribe to a broader view of the universe.

 

[RoninPimp]

A lot of things are unproven by so called science. That doesn't bother me at all, as I subscribe to a broader view of the universe.

-So you have a belief in something unproven. That's a fair statement if you would actually say that. Most people believe in things unprovable. That kinda makes the world go around. But it aint science.