K
kenpojujitsu
Guest
Marginal said:
Actually Phleps comes no where near being a Fundamentalist Christian. But those with an anti-Christian agenda try to paint him as being so in order to advance that agenda.
Dead soldiers, happy christians
- Thread starter Marginal
- Start date
Actually Phleps comes no where near being a Fundamentalist Christian. But those with an anti-Christian agenda try to paint him as being so in order to advance that agenda.
Brother John
Senior Master
True, bro, true.Marginal said:
That SICK-O's "church" is here in my home state...
whoopie!
He's an IDIOT and is not a Christian. Christ said that we'd know people by their Works....by what they do.
This man doesn't know Christ, and he's leading many gullible idiots astray.
Odd fact that I know because I'm near them and hear about them all the time...
The Majority of his "Congregation" are his own inbread relatives!!!
No kidding, something like 70% from what I've heard.
Imagine the family get togethers!!!
sheesh......
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
X-actlykenpojujitsu said:
Your Bro.
John
Brother John
Senior Master
Marginal said:
I don't understand what you are saying.
Do you think that thousdand upon thousands of "conservative Christians" (fundamentalist or otherwise) believe much the same stuff as what Fred Phelps is putting forth???
Really?
Your Brother
John
heretic888
Senior Master
Brother John said:
Well, let's put it this way....
In social scientific literature, there has been a long line of studies that have made note of a significant correlation between religious fundamentalism (Christian or otherwise) and prejudiced beliefs against outgroups. A few studies even seem to indicate that, at least here in the United States, Christians tend to have more prejudiced views than non-Christians.
Of course, correlation is not causation so this data could be interpreted any number of ways. But, that there is some connection between fundamentalism and prejudice is unmistakable.
Laterz.
OP
OP
Marginal
Senior Master
kenpojujitsu said:
Since fundimentalist = crazy the world over, (no matter what the word that follows is, "fundimentalist X" means the same thing regardless. Bombing abortion clinics, setting genetic research labs, vs suicide bombers in Iraq etc isn't any different) it's sometimes hard to tell the difference.
Brother John: Calling conservative Christians fundimentalists is like taking the beliefs of Osama and saying they are an accurate reflection of the typical conservative muslim. In both cases, you're defining the norm by the outliers rather than the actual practices of the norm. I was simply poking fun at the double standard applied to one set of intolerable behaviors compared to another.
Brother John
Senior Master
heretic888 said:
I think that this speaks volumes, really.
There are SO many different levels of interolerance and even that (determining what IS "intolerance") is very subjective. I don't see how any "scientific" study could show anything conclusive at all. Having taken several classes on sociology and social psych I can tell you... those studies, more often than not, find out Exactly what they set out to find out and read their presupositions into whatever data they do or do not find.
BUT: I must admit that there is a solid grain of truth in what you say! I know that you are right, that those who are "religious" tend to feel that they have a better than normal grasp on what is right and wrong, acceptable and not... it's pretty much part and parcel with a "belief" system like that. The difference is....IN MY PERSONAL BELIEFS (I'd like to make that 110% clear) a "Christian" should be noted for Three things: Their LOVE of God (Trinity, if you will), their consistancy in between their beliefs and how they live and thirdly.... their LOVE of and Service to their fellow man....WITHOUT their fellow man needing to agree with them or even be "spiritual" or "holy" in the first place. By the very foundational beliefs of the faith.... it presuposes that NO person, Christian or non-Christian, is any better nor any worse than any other human....and that we Must LOVE them no matter what.
SOrry.... didn't mean to get preachy! Just saying, IF Fred Phelps and his lot were actually in touch with the message of Jesus of Nazareth... they would LOVE and try to CARE for the sinners instead of pointing their finger and crying "HERETIC"....
Hey....
that's you!!!
hahahaha.... (I still get a kick out of your handle there)
It's sort of like Ghandi said concerning "Christians".
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
Any real Christian, hearing that...should take PAUSE, not offense, and then make the adjustments that they know inside are Right. BUT Too many of my brother and sister Christians would stamp their feet and reject the words of this "pagan".
There's a difference between determining what is right and what is wrong and living in accord with that....
and
Decrying what is Wrong and attacking those whom aren't like you.
The first is the sign of 'Religious' person..
the second,
a bigot.
The two SHOULDN'T be seen as inter-changeable terms, but we seldom have anyone to blame but ourselves. ((but that doesn't keep many from trying anyway))
[/FONT]
Your Brother
John
OH Yeah..
MARGINAL: I see (I think) where you're coming from, and you may have a point.... though I hate to admit it.
bluemtn
Senior Master
I agree with you, brother john. I don't think we should judge anyone, really. I have my beliefs, and I know I won't always believe what the next person does. I'm not going to point a finger at someone and say, "your going to..., because I don't like what you..." It's not my business to make that kind of judgement, nor is it anyone elses here on earth.
I like that.
I like that.
tkdgirl said:
It's just another form of Brahminism, really. In India, especially in older days, the Brahmins were the blue-bloods that, simply per virtue of being born in to a caste, had special priveledges to perform religious services...and as such, were of a higher social strata.
I have my beliefs, too. I respect Christianity. I have nothing against Christians in general. I have an issue with ANY religious person (including Christians, including those of my own faith) that believe their religion gives them some sort of Brahministic privledge to toss meekness and humility aside in order to indulge themselves in denegrating others.
Brother John
Senior Master
tkdgirl said:
I'm with you!
As Mr. Phelps is so fond of harassing people with scripture (out of context and most often against the grain of the original intent) I'd like to see what he thought of some other scripture...
Yet he brings pain, confusion and anguish to the family members of fallen soldiers and those who's children have died of aids (wether or not the deceased was even a homosexual or not).
OR....one of my favorites, directly from Jesus' own words to instruct each believer in THIS kind of matter:
The words of the one Phelps says he serves, juxtaposed with the actions and words he's used to harm the hearts and minds of God's children.... will rise up and judge him. It's too bad too. I wish he'd stop. I wish he'd quit doing these harmful/hurtful things!! Both for his own good but more especially for those who's spirits are hurt by him while they are already dealing with pain.
This man is just plain wrong.
That is my judgement I guess, and I'm OK with that.
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
AlSO:
Non Christians...
thanks for putting up with my preachiness there. Just thought I'd highlight how this guy contradicts the very beliefs that he 'says' motivates him.
Your Brother
John
Non Christians...
thanks for putting up with my preachiness there. Just thought I'd highlight how this guy contradicts the very beliefs that he 'says' motivates him.
Your Brother
John
OP
OP
Marginal
Senior Master
Brother John said:
Yes, but then, was an advocate for the poor etc. Not many walk the walk when it comes to following that example. Not when outmoded social darwinism and a Ben Franklin quote (God helps those who help themselves) are viewed as a better representation of what Jesus was really talking about.
J
Josh
Guest
.
heretic888
Senior Master
Brother John said:
While what you say may be true of individual studies, what I am talking about is a decided and continous trend of empirical research in social psychology and sociology.
Study after study has confirmed the link between religious fundamentalism and prejudice. It is an extremely well-established finding within the scientific literature at this point. This isn't just Christian fundamentalism, either, as similar findings have been found concerning Jewish fundamentalists and Islamic fundamentalists.
However, as I pointed out before, correlation is not causation. It could be that religious fundamentalism is inculcating intolerance and prejudice within its adherents (i.e., fundamentalism causes prejudice). Or, it could just as easily be that those that are already intolerant and prejudiced are drawn to religious fundamentalism (i.e., prejudice causes fundamentalism). Or, just as likely, there could be a third, unknown variable that is influencing both (i.e., an unknown variable causes both prejudice and fundamentalism).
At this point, we just don't know the source or direction of the causation. All we can say with certainty that there is some significant relationship between the two variables.
Laterz.
