Dead Soldier; Happy Mom

[michaeledward]

That said, do you consider hugging Hugo Chavez and making a number of anti-America comments a protest over her son's death?

That she gets a hug from an elected leader of a democratic country must really burn some up. (Democracy, but only if you agree with it, or am I misinterpreting your comments?)

What anti-American comments?

 

[jdinca]

That she gets a hug from an elected leader of a democratic country must really burn some up. (Democracy, but only if you agree with it, or am I misinterpreting your comments?)

What anti-American comments?

If you are considering the last election of Chavez to have been democratic and not totally controlled by his faction, then I don't know that we have any common ground to even be discussing this.

 

[michaeledward]

If you are considering the last election of Chavez to have been democratic and not totally controlled by his faction, then I don't know that we have any common ground to even be discussing this.

Why not?

Don't you think the same argument could be made for Senior' Bush in 2000 ... or 2004.



P.S.


And ... What anti-American Comments?

 

[Blotan Hunka]

The ignore option here is wonderful.

 

[jdinca]

Why not?

Don't you think the same argument could be made for Senior' Bush in 2000 ... or 2004.



P.S.


And ... What anti-American Comments?

Calling the US a "malicious empire" doesn't count? How about calling us imperialists, trying to impose our will? This one has to do with American companies:

A new world is necessary and it can only be possible if we rein in the depraved corporations that thrive off of the flesh and blood of our neighbors all over the world and here in America. War profiteers like Halliburton, Bechtel and General Electric who are racking up obscene profits and increasing the bottom line of their shareholders while they are running roughshod over this planet. Malevolent companies such as Dow who dump chemicals and other pollutants into the water and atmosphere that kill people, our environment and our future! Companies like Wal-Mart that exploit workers in the U.S. and abroad to enrich a family that already has more than enough money to fund healthcare and a living wage for all of its employees and have a little extra left over to pay their country club fees.

Here's another one:

Before I dive into the concept of Matriotism, let's explore the word "patriotism." Dictionary.com defines it as: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it. When we all know that patriotism in the US means: exploiting others' love for country by sending them and their children off to sacrifice for my bank balance!

Yet more, she's including Afghanistan in this one:

After the tragedy of 9/11 we were on our way to becoming a fledgling Matriotic society until our leaders jumped on the bandwagon of inappropriate and misguided vengeance to send our young people to die and kill in two countries that were no threat to the USA or to our way of life. The neocons exploited patriotism to fulfill their goals of imperialism and plunder.

A one liner:

The apathy of most of America is stunning and appalling to me.

And finally:

America: this is what you are allowing your government to do in your name:
Detain and torture prisoners without due process. Use chemical weapons on other members of humanity. Spy on Americans without a court order (I hope my conversations put them in a coma of boredom). Carpet bomb cities filled with human beings like yourselves. Destroy the infrastructure of other countries. Destroy the infrastructure of American cities. Cut taxes on the rich while pouring money and blood into the thirsty sands of the Middle East. Decimate our treasury. Rape the environment. Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.

I will acknowledge that she saves the majority of her vitriol for the government. It is nice to know that at least she's including the democrats now.

 

[michaeledward]

I'm not sure any of those statements are 'Anti-American'.

She does call out the apathy of America ... where we struggle to get 50% of the population to show up on election day. It may be anti-American, but it is accurate, isn't it?

The only other item I see in these quotes that moves from opinion (to which she is entitled) to incorrect (which demands correction), is the comment about "two countries" that posed no threat to America. Iraq in 2003 can obviously and accurately described as 'no threat to America'. (especially with hindsight showing there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction). Afghanistan, as a country, was no threat to anyone, except by the support of Al Qaeda. The Taliban rulers of that country should have been (and were) removed. That does not negate that the neoconservative view of Afghanistan is such that we need a friendly government to get our pipeline through there territory.

Some may also argue (as I have) that White Phosphorous was used as a chemical weapon in Fallujah. Others disagree. We don't need to re-argue that item here. But I think there are enough people on both sides of the argument to consider it a fair statement.


Certainly, some of her statements are strong. And people of good character may have differing opinions. However, to call these anti-American is to simplify the argument to a characature. Much like the Danish Newspapers. Separate the question from the questioner. Are there merits in what she is saying. I believe people of integrity can recognize and appreciate the question, even if they disagree with the answer.

 

[Don Roley]

Calling the US a "malicious empire" doesn't count? How about calling us imperialists, trying to impose our will? This one has to do with American companies:

A new world is necessary and it can only be possible if we rein in the depraved corporations that thrive off of the flesh and blood of our neighbors all over the world and here in America. War profiteers like Halliburton, Bechtel and General Electric who are racking up obscene profits and increasing the bottom line of their shareholders while they are running roughshod over this planet. Malevolent companies such as Dow who dump chemicals and other pollutants into the water and atmosphere that kill people, our environment and our future! Companies like Wal-Mart that exploit workers in the U.S. and abroad to enrich a family that already has more than enough money to fund healthcare and a living wage for all of its employees and have a little extra left over to pay their country club fees.

Here's another one:

Before I dive into the concept of Matriotism, let's explore the word "patriotism." Dictionary.com defines it as: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it. When we all know that patriotism in the US means: exploiting others' love for country by sending them and their children off to sacrifice for my bank balance!

Yet more, she's including Afghanistan in this one:

After the tragedy of 9/11 we were on our way to becoming a fledgling Matriotic society until our leaders jumped on the bandwagon of inappropriate and misguided vengeance to send our young people to die and kill in two countries that were no threat to the USA or to our way of life. The neocons exploited patriotism to fulfill their goals of imperialism and plunder.

A one liner:

The apathy of most of America is stunning and appalling to me.

And finally:

America: this is what you are allowing your government to do in your name:
Detain and torture prisoners without due process. Use chemical weapons on other members of humanity. Spy on Americans without a court order (I hope my conversations put them in a coma of boredom). Carpet bomb cities filled with human beings like yourselves. Destroy the infrastructure of other countries. Destroy the infrastructure of American cities. Cut taxes on the rich while pouring money and blood into the thirsty sands of the Middle East. Decimate our treasury. Rape the environment. Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.

I will acknowledge that she saves the majority of her vitriol for the government. It is nice to know that at least she's including the democrats now.

Looking over the above, as well as a lot of other things I have seen, there is no way I can believe that Sheehan became what she was as a result of her son's death. Hatred of the president and the way, yes I could believe that. But she had to be pretty fringe before her son joined to have the views she has now about everything.

I mean... she even thinks that we should not have invaded Afghanistan after they sheltered the guys that pulled off 9-11 and would not turn them over. How far out do you have to be to have that point of view?

So, when she got her chance for fame due to her son's death, she took it. And now I am convinced she is using her son's death for her own means. As a person who has served, I know I would not like it if my relatives used my death like that. And I know a lot of people who joined the military over the objections of their parents and sometimes to get away from those same parents. This may just be her form of revenge on her son as well as her chance for fame and to promote her agenda.

I do not see anything that runs counter to that view.

 

[Seig]

Ya know, if she pepetrated this kind of behavior on any of us, we could charge her with being a stalker.

 

[michaeledward]

Ya know, if she pepetrated this kind of behavior on any of us, we could charge her with being a stalker.

What kind of behavior?

 

[jdinca]

Looking over the above, as well as a lot of other things I have seen, there is no way I can believe that Sheehan became what she was as a result of her son's death. Hatred of the president and the way, yes I could believe that. But she had to be pretty fringe before her son joined to have the views she has now about everything.

I mean... she even thinks that we should not have invaded Afghanistan after they sheltered the guys that pulled off 9-11 and would not turn them over. How far out do you have to be to have that point of view?

So, when she got her chance for fame due to her son's death, she took it. And now I am convinced she is using her son's death for her own means. As a person who has served, I know I would not like it if my relatives used my death like that. And I know a lot of people who joined the military over the objections of their parents and sometimes to get away from those same parents. This may just be her form of revenge on her son as well as her chance for fame and to promote her agenda.

I do not see anything that runs counter to that view.

What gets me is how upset she got at Bush for using her son's name and telling him in many forums that he does not have her permission to do so, yet she and her cohorts had no problem setting up a mock graveyard in Texas with the names of those who have died in Iraq without the families permission.

It's an interesting note that the radical left screams about their right to free speech, calls the President of the United States a murderous war monger and the world's worst terrorist, yet those who disagree with them are hate mongers, liars, racists, part of the "neocon smear machine", etc. I don't get it.

 

[michaeledward]

What gets me is how upset she got at Bush for using her son's name and telling him in many forums that he does not have her permission to do so, yet she and her cohorts had no problem setting up a mock graveyard in Texas with the names of those who have died in Iraq without the families permission.

You know, I thought I was pretty well informed about Ms. Sheehan.

I am wondering when, specifically, President Bush used the name Casey Sheehan, and for what purpose.

Also, there are many displays honoring the dead soldiers, often portrayed with empty boots. I haven't seen names on those displays. I'm wondering if names are provided, if they are provided with the familie's permissions.

 

[jdinca]

You know, I thought I was pretty well informed about Ms. Sheehan.

I am wondering when, specifically, President Bush used the name Casey Sheehan, and for what purpose.

Also, there are many displays honoring the dead soldiers, often portrayed with empty boots. I haven't seen names on those displays. I'm wondering if names are provided, if they are provided with the familie's permissions.

I'm just going by Sheehan's own words in several of the speeches, columns of hers I've read.

 

[michaeledward]

Is Mary Tillman in for the same types of attacks as Ms. Sheehan?

Or, have the times changed significantly enough?

"The Administration used Pat," Mary Tillman told me in a phone interview on Monday from San Jose. "They tried to attach themselves to his virtue and then they wiped their feet with him."

 

[Don Roley]

Is Mary Tillman going to talk to the media and let her opinions be known or is she going to act as batty as Sheehan?

 

[michaeledward]

Ms. Sheehan has purchased a 5 acre plot of land in Crawford, Texas. Apparently, she will continue to hold protests in Crawford, petitioning the President for a change of policy.

The residents of Crawford, Texas don't seem to be especially neighborly.

“I wish she’d stay away. Crawford’s a Republican town, and she’s a dumb Democrat,”

Wonderful.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14093546/

 

[mrhnau]

Ms. Sheehan has purchased a 5 acre plot of land in Crawford, Texas. Apparently, she will continue to hold protests in Crawford, petitioning the President for a change of policy.

The residents of Crawford, Texas don't seem to be especially neighborly.



Wonderful.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14093546/

Suppose your next door neighbor gets in trouble, or is a politician that is left leaning. Would you enjoy it if someone parks out in the lawn to protest all day long? Even if I agreed with the person, I'd get a bit annoyed after a few years. Considering the purchase, I'm guessing she is staying at least until 2008.

 

[michaeledward]

Yes.

I might get a bit bothered by a protest.

I don't know that I would describe the protestor as that Crawford resident described Ms. Sheehan.

I didn't realize the war in Iraq, and soldiers dying, and the desire for peace, was a 'Republican / Democrat' issue.

 

[Cryozombie]

I don't know that I would escribe the protestor as that Crawford resident described Ms. Sheehan.

Its all well and good that you can pull the quote of a single Republican to make them all sound bad...

Wonder how many I can pull of Liberals referring to Republicans as Uneducated, morons, ignorant, etc...

If its not, as you say about Republican vs Democrat why did you bring that specificly to light... you could have left it to the fact she purchased the land, and was continuing her protests. You didnt need to pull an ignorant quote from one resident... *You* chose to turn the discussion in that direction by doing so.

 

[michaeledward]

Its all well and good that you can pull the quote of a single Republican to make them all sound bad...

Wonder how many I can pull of Liberals referring to Republicans as Uneducated, morons, ignorant, etc...

If its not, as you say about Republican vs Democrat why did you bring that specificly to light... you could have left it to the fact she purchased the land, and was continuing her protests. You didnt need to pull an ignorant quote from one resident... *You* chose to turn the discussion in that direction by doing so.

Yes, I suppose I did.

You will note, if you follow the link, the quote was in the second paragraph of the news report. I did not write that news report, by the way.

But, you see, I do believe that the war in Iraq is a 'Republican / Democrat' issue. Because the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress, and the Republican Executive Administration has dug this hole for us ... and they keep right on digging.

We're buried in Iraq to the tune of two billion dollars a week.

And anytime someone suggests that we are not being helpful in Iraq, and that in fact, we are exacerbating the issue, and Democrats are accused of cutting and running, of being communists, of hating their country, or, as in this case ... dumb.

So, please, bring on the Democratic quotes that slander Republicans ... but remember, at this point in our country, Democrats have almost no power. We are as close to a one party state as we have been since the time of the first George W.

 

[Don Roley]

Wonder how many I can pull of Liberals referring to Republicans as Uneducated, morons, ignorant, etc...

From just martialtalk?

I can imagine just how upset the locals are about this latest turn of events. To go out and buy property just so that you can continue to keep in the public eye is not qualities I would want in someone in my neighborhood.

Either she is a publicity hound so intent on using her son's death for some fame or she is so unhinged by it that she goes to these extremes to carry on her agenda. Neither is reasuring. And the sad thing is, if it is the later case then most of her handlers are more interested in the use they can get out of her in her attacks on the president than in getting her some serious help.