Dead Soldier; Happy Mom

[michaeledward]

Good. And the subject of what she says she wants to push is the subject of many other threads.

Or does someone else want to divert attention and the subject away from how she is using her sons death to gain fame?

But can we address the substance of her argument.

OK Don . . . I gave you a concession and now you are ducking the question.

Why did 94 American Soldiers Die in Iraq in October of 2005?

How many more American Soldiers are going to die in Iraq this month? Next Month? Why are they dying?

 

[Don Roley]

OK Don . . . I gave you a concession and now you are ducking the question.

Why did 94 American Soldiers Die in Iraq in October of 2005?

How many more American Soldiers are going to die in Iraq this month? Next Month? Why are they dying?

I declined to answer because the subject of this thread is about Sheehan and not what you want to turn the conversation to.

You are so eager to push your agenda that you also want to use this mans death to promote it against his probable will?

Go to the other threads about the war. It is not the subject the original poster intended to talk about. You are not showing honor by trying to hijack the thread about how a man's death is being used to use for your own crusade.

 

[michaeledward]

I declined to answer because the subject of this thread is about Sheehan and not what you want to turn the conversation to.

You are so eager to push your agenda that you also want to use this mans death to promote it against his probable will?

Go to the other threads about the war. It is not the subject the original poster intended to talk about. You are not showing honor by trying to hijack the thread about how a man's death is being used to use for your own crusade.

Crusade? Man, you have to think about the words you use.

As for honor .... maybe I am attempting to show honor to the living soldiers. I don't want any more of them to die because our petulant President had a grudge against someone attempting to assassinate his "Dad". A President who either knowingly lied to the American Citizens (and the World) to build a case for war or was incompetent enough to be misled himself.

Haven't you figured out that these threads are discussions ... all discussions wander in and out of topics ... but, now, I am just being asked to shut up by someone who earlier in this thread said they wouldn't do that.

And I will not shut up, and I do not expect anyone else such as you to either.

If you wish for stronger moderation, there is a link in the upper left corner of the posts to report the thread to the moderators.

 

[Don Roley]

As for honor .... maybe I am attempting to show honor to the living soldiers. I don't want any more of them to die because our petulant President had a grudge against someone attempting to assassinate his "Dad". A President who either knowingly lied to the American Citizens (and the World) to build a case for war or was incompetent enough to be misled himself.

And maybe you are not trying to honor them. You are more interested in trying to bash the president than in discussing the idea that this thread is about. Martialtalk is about discussion. But they do try to prevent thread drift and do not like when people with agendas try to hijack threads as you are doing.

You have no interest in the dead soldier. As a former one, I do. If you want a response from me or a questioned answered, keep to the spirit of the first post.

 

[michaeledward]

You have no interest in the dead soldier.

And you are a mind-reader too.

 

[Flatlander]

As a member (I've commented in the discussion) I see the question that michaeledward raised as being perfectly relevant. In fact, I see it as illustrating precisely what Cindy Sheehan herself is asking. So, how is that not relevant in a thread about Cindy Sheehan?

If we know what she is asking, and we can see how people react to that question, does that not speak to whether Cindy Sheehan is a "happy mom" about her son being a "dead soldier"?

Of course, nobody needs to answer the question if they don't want to. You still have choice in whether you participate in the discussion.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

I think the thread title is just a little . . . disgusting. It's as if some people believe that a woman is happy that her son is dead.

Maybe she's happy because she feels successful in her protest efforts.

Of course she probably wouldn't be protesting as strongly had her son not died, but that does not necessarily mean she is using him.

Imagine having a serious illness that requires an extensive stay in a hospital. While there, you become good friends with someone and that friendship makes you very happy. Are you happy because of your serious illness? Are you using the illness to further your friend-gaining agenda?

Not the best analogy, but damn - can we at least show some respect?

 

[michaeledward]

This just in.

Secretary of Defense is suggesting that the number of US Soldiers on the ground in Iraq may need to increase as we move forward toward the December elections.

The number of troops on the ground was at its highest level in mid-October (161,000) but has rotated down slightly (158,000).

How many were used to capture Baghdad?

 

[Don Roley]

Not the best analogy, but damn - can we at least show some respect?

I think that is the point is that to my eyes Ms Sheehan is not respecting the probable wishes of her dead son.

Take a minute to do an image search on her. She is not clustered at home, collapsed with grief. She has gone out to seek the spotlight. It is not just the picture at the beggining of this thread, she is quite free from tears as she seeks out camera crews to talk with.

I would not use a dead person's name to futher my own ends unless I was pretty damn sure they would have approved. If there was any doubt, I would refrain. And it would not be a case of, 'this cause is too important to care how the dead would feel.'

Ms. Sheehan has made a choice to be a media figure. If she was so torn with grief that she could not leave the house I would decry the media circus camped out on her lawn. But when she made the effort to be known to millions of people, she became open to public discussion.

It seems that the anti-war people would like to have a spokesperson who can bash the president for them but can't be touched on for her rather vile behavior.

Again, would you want your name 'respected' by your relatives to say that Islam was the religion of the devil after you were killed in a bomb? It does not matter the cause, just that you probably would not approve and despite that your relatives used your name to get in front of the cameras.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Are we still discussion Cindy Sheehan's (losing) battle for attention (or sanity)? I thought that circus left town weeks ago. It must be difficult to have all those cameras pointed at you, and then suddenly find yourself relegated to anonymity once again. To think how Cindy's handlers fed this woman's ego, played her up and then dropped her like a hot potato once her 15-minutes of fame and her usefulness were up. Oh well, next...

 

[michaeledward]

Ms. Sheehan has a court appearance today for 'demonstrating without a permit'. The maximum sentence is a $500.00 fine and / or 6 months in jail.

One has to wonder if the courts will demonstrate the same 'tin-ear' the President has, and put her in jail for 6 months. She has stated she will not pay a fine.

 

[modarnis]

Ms. Sheehan has a court appearance today for 'demonstrating without a permit'. The maximum sentence is a $500.00 fine and / or 6 months in jail.

One has to wonder if the courts will demonstrate the same 'tin-ear' the President has, and put her in jail for 6 months. She has stated she will not pay a fine.

If the prosecutors are smart, they will decline to prosecute the case, limiting the newsworthiness of the event and preventing her from being a martyr

 

[michaeledward]

Cindy Sheehan was found guilty of Demonstrating without a Permit. U.S. Magistrate Kay has ordered Sheehan to pay $50.50 in fines and court fees.

Ms. Sheehan will appeal the conviction on grounds she was petitioning the government as provisioned in the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[modarnis]

Cindy Sheehan was found guilty of Demonstrating without a Permit. U.S. Magistrate Kay has ordered Sheehan to pay $50.50 in fines and court fees.

Ms. Sheehan will appeal the conviction on grounds she was petitioning the government as provisioned in the First Amendment to the Constitution.

​

Of course there is a large body of case law that allows governments to regulate the time, place, and manner of the exercise of free speech and assembly (see Cox v. State of New Hampshire, 312 U.S. 569) Obviously any state or local ordinance must be content neutral and evenly applied

 

[arnisador]

Petitioning the govt.? Eh, I don't buy it. It was aprotest. That's great...but it's something different.

 

[KenpoEMT]

Sheehan is welcome to say whatever she wants to say in opposition to the war. Hooray for free speech.
The fact of the matter is that the death of her son does not make her an expert on foreign affairs. She isn't an authority on anything pertaining to the political aspect of this war. I was astounded that the media paid her so much attention.

It appears that many activist groups think that grief will overcome logic. "If we find a grieving poster-child, we will automatically win the arguement." Clearly, this isn't so.

 

[KenpoEMT]

Well, at least she's in Spain this time.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/17/D8EI2P782.html

Dec 17 10:19 AM US/Eastern


MADRID, Spain - Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan led a small protest Saturday outside the U.S. Embassy to denounce the war in Iraq.
About 100 protesters carried banners criticizing President Bush.
Sheehan, whose soldier son was killed in Iraq, called Bush a war criminal and said, "Iraq is worse than Vietnam."

"Iraq is worse than Vietnam." That's cute...

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well, at least she's in Spain this time.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/17/D8EI2P782.html

"Iraq is worse than Vietnam." That's cute...

The woman's a nit-wit. I'd be surprised if she could spell 'Vietnam'. She's an expert on 'how she feels', which is fine....just don't be surprised when you talk out side your area of expertise, other people ridicule you.

That crap plays well in Europe, though, it plays to their elitist tendencies...makes them feel superior, just as some American's like to make themselves feel superior by identifying with Europeans (I hope I didn't step on some pretentious toes there).

It is good to see Cindy is working again. I had become concerned that, without a camera in front of her, she might become distraught. I guess she got drafted to play in the European Arena league.

 

[michaeledward]

Ms. Sheehan was arrested at the State of the Union address yesterday. She was wearing a T-Shirt that referenced fallen American soldiers; "2,245 dead - How Many More?"

The charges were dropped today.

The Gray cloud / Silver lining over this incident is that the wife of Representative Young (R-FL) was also removed from the State of the Union address. She was wearing a T-Shirt, as well; "Support the Troops - Defending our Freedom".

I suppose it becomes difficult to control the activities of a Totalitarian State once you get started, eh?

 

[KenpoEMT]

Hell, they probably should have just removed everybody from the address...