Criticisms of Karate

[Robbo]

really.......... i am quite confident iin my knowledge. so please do educate me.

Knowledge of what exactly?

Forms exist for many reasons.

1) Library of techniques of a system.
2) Not everybody is going to want to 'bang' when they are 50 years old or sick or injured, therefore it is a great way for them to work the techniques without contact.
3) Presence and showmanship.
4)Confidence.
5) They teach you how to move...moving by torquing, marriage of gravity, stepping, lunging, twisting, turning, bobbing, weaving, parrying, blocking, striking, thrusting, offense, defense, timing, ryhthm, power, speed, whipping, slashing, poking, kicking, stomping, throwing, locks, and on, and on.

Now please for the board, PLEASE tell me that after proper instruction in how to do a form that the form would NOT work what I have mentioned above.

PLEASE tell the board that I am full of #@%$.

Rob


P.S. Go tell a Kyoshinkai person that forms suck and they are bascially deluding themselves.....then when you pick your *** up, you can start to wake up. Not trying to start a fight...that's all you are doing with the stuff you are posting.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by chufeng
It is an internal strike that uses a very loose and relaxed hand and wrist...when applied, it appears to be the slap of someone who is, shall we say, effeminate...BUT it hits with tremendous force...
We nick-named it the Capitol Hill ***** Slap because there is a very large percentage of overtly gay folk in the Capitol Hill area of Seattle...

chufeng

OK, gotcha. Here in Melbourne, we call that the St. Kilda Karate Chop.

Same thing, same reason.

--Dave:asian:

 

[chufeng]

chufeng

 

[platinum_angel]

*closes eyes and smiles*

The youngun' has never experienced the "Capitol Hill ***** Slap," so it isn't fair to expect him to understand...

:iws:

If survival reappears, you do what you have to to survive...IF (big IF)you've been trained correctly you stand a better (51/49) chance at surviving...the more training you have the better your chances at survival...

you've been trained correctly

i agree

If you found your karate teacher lacking (No, he gave the best instruction??? Who are you to judge what's good and bad? with 1.5 years training?) then you did the right thing to leave...but I guarantee that if you had found a REAL school of karate, WE would not be having this internet discussion.

a year and a half is enough time to see what karate is about. my instructors gave me great instruction and they knew their techniques very well. as for me i was one of their most determined students i walked there 2 miles every other day. then still worked out my hardest.

1) Library of techniques of a system.

many of the techniques karate practitioners practice are not pracitical and not only that but when trained in a predetermined way(such as kata) they are not even close to effective in a real life situation.

2) Not everybody is going to want to 'bang' when they are 50 years old or sick or injured, therefore it is a great way for them to work the techniques without contact.

if you are 50 years old and just learning techniques and not learning how to apply them in contact sparring then what do you you truly learn.........techniques.........which you could learn from a book.

3) Presence and showmanship.

well in that case why not just practice dancing it would impress the judges more and be a better means of training :rofl:

what a pathetic reason to practice kata.:shrug:

4)Confidence.

and thats just what you people need to..........some more confidence.:shrug:

They teach you how to move

yeah.......like a preprogramed robot

PLEASE tell the board that I am full of #@%$.

you see.........the sad thing is that your not

And, unless you change the way you present yourslf here, I probably WON'T be responding to your posts in the future.

owww that hurts lol

 

[Robbo]

what a pathetic reason to practice kata.

I'm sure all the Martial Art masters are bowing to your superior wisdom as we speak.

See-Ya,
Rob

 

[chufeng]

many of the techniques karate practitioners practice are not pracitical and not only that but when trained in a predetermined way(such as kata) they are not even close to effective in a real life situation.

Wrong...
Technique from kata is VERY effective...

The problem is that many people who hang a shingle out to teach, aren't ready to teach because they don't understand
what they are doing...you can't blame that on Karate, but on the individuals who teach it wrong.

I can tell you I've met more poorly trained karate and "kung-fu" teachers than well qualified ones...odds are, if you only went to one school, you got a lemon.

Don't discard karate out of hand because of one bad experience.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
*closes eyes and smiles*


:iws:

you've been trained correctly

i agree







many of the techniques karate practitioners practice are not pracitical and not only that but when trained in a predetermined way(such as kata) they are not even close to effective in a real life situation.



if you are 50 years old and just learning techniques and not learning how to apply them in contact sparring then what do you you truly learn.........techniques.........which you could learn from a book.



well in that case why not just practice dancing it would impress the judges more and be a better means of training :rofl:

what a pathetic reason to practice kata.:shrug:



and thats just what you people need to..........some more confidence.:shrug:



yeah.......like a preprogramed robot



you see.........the sad thing is that your not



owww that hurts lol

Ya know….this guy’s comments have been gone over soooooooooo many times on MT and other boards it’s not even worth getting into here yet again for the sake of his “education”.

If he thinks Kata are junk and karate techniques are useless fine by me.

Odd how some folks claim karate is not effective because they lose to someone else………….what happens when 2 karateka from the same dojo fight and one loses?

It’s all about “resolve” and whether you have enough to see things through to the end.
Quitters will always quite/lose no matter what art they study and winners will always win no matter what art they study.

 

[yilisifu]

I agree. As one teacher put it, "One must be kind to blind men."

And an old friend of mine said, "There are those who don't have a clue...then there are those who don't even suspect."

This guy falls into the latter category.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
It is an internal strike that uses a very loose and relaxed hand and wrist...when applied, it appears to be the slap of someone who is, shall we say, effeminate...BUT it hits with tremendous force...
We nick-named it the Capitol Hill ***** Slap because there is a very large percentage of overtly gay folk in the Capitol Hill area of Seattle...

chufeng

I call mine an Iron Palm, with my fingers pulled back and tight, used to cause a ringing effect in the head.

Done wrong, it would be a ***** slap

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
*yawns*

hmm let me start out by saying i have taken a year and a half of goju-ryu karate. well during my training i would always ask my self are these techniques really useful. for instance striking with the back of your wrist. in a fight would you really risk breaking your wrist when you could just use your palm. or horse stance if igot into a fight wouldn't he just be able to push me over or just tackle me. but i continued with my training. my instructors were alright i wasn't in a mcdojo even though they never demontrated their fighting ability. but my instructors had the intentions of meking it a mcdojo. so they moved from the school they were training at into to a city. i got a letter in the mail telling me if i wanted to continue my training i would have to pay like a 1000 bucks a year. previously i was bragging about how good of a fighter i was at school. so it ended up me getting into fights with wrestlers and they kicked my ***. from then on i knew that there was something wrong karate really didn't teach me how to fight. but i kept my head up high and started reading books on jeet kune do and researching other arts. still am. but what i relized was that karate isn't that effective.

karate gives their students a false sense of security. there fighting techniques are not practical in a real fighting situation. why do you think they use point systems during sparring. not only that but their training methods such kata are not good means of training. some people say ohhh well its just like shadow boxing - their not the same they are completly different.

now i'm not trying to troll i am just trying to wake you people up.

platinum_angel,
You're an inexperienced youngster compared to these vets. in here and this is not defend.net!

Take off your blinders and empty you're cup and you might learn something! :asian:

 

[platinum_angel]

Originally posted by akja
platinum_angel,
You're an inexperienced youngster compared to these vets. in here and this is not defend.net!

Take off your blinders and empty you're cup and you might learn something! :asian:

lol haha

i like that out of you:rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:

 

[Jill666]

I just typed a long-*** response, and a power surge shut me down before I could send it. :cuss:

So here's a short version- the one thing I think that has cheapened many martial arts- karate being one of the most visible examples in general, is the plethora of half-trained artists opening schools.

Hey I'm a black belt- I could open a school, and two of my classmates have students of their own. I can give you some trouble in the ring, does that mean I can teach you how to use your body well in a fight? I can perform Bassai Dai, and I can show you the moves- does that mean I can pull it apart and give you understanding of all the lessons in this kata? Nope.

I have only been in the MA community for six years (give or take). I have mastered a lot of basic material, and now have to develop it. I can fight clean in the dojo, and dirty on the street. I can encourage and coach others in my school. I have a lifetime- long or short- and will spend it becoming a good martial artist.

There is nothing wrong with Karate as a fully developed martial art, taught to a serious student by someone who has developed their own understanding of balance, power, chi, timing, etc. So many go into an art thinking it will quickly teach them to be deadly in the street, smart in business, irresistible in bed, mysterious and wise, all in six months. Many teachers will pander to that mentaility- it pays the bills. Maybe some teachers even believe it themselves. Then when it fails to happen, these boneheads blame the art. :shrug:

Kata can teach a lot. Regimented self-defense techniques can teach a lot. Sparring can teach a lot. Drills of basic moves can teach a lot. But without a quality martial artist teaching these lessons, these will be empty exercises, only partly understood and probably ineffective when needed.

That (IMHFO) is what is wrong with karate.


:soapbox:

 

[platinum_angel]

I have only been in the MA community for six years (give or take). I have mastered a lot of basic material, and now have to develop it. I can fight clean in the dojo, and dirty on the street. I can encourage and coach others in my school. I have a lifetime- long or short- and will spend it becoming a good martial artist.
.

does that mean you've only been in karate for 6 years and you already have a black belt. it takes 10-11 years in my art. so i've had 1/4 of your experience and i'm an inexperienced youngster compared to you. :rofl: :boing1: :lol:

There is nothing wrong with Karate as a fully developed martial art, taught to a serious student by someone who has developed their own understanding of balance, power, chi, timing, etc. So many go into an art thinking it will quickly teach them to be deadly in the street, smart in business, irresistible in bed, mysterious and wise, all in six months. Many teachers will pander to that mentaility- it pays the bills. Maybe some teachers even believe it themselves. Then when it fails to happen, these boneheads blame the art.

i don't blame the art because of all of the mcdojo's. i just think that karate is ineffective. i agree after so many years you will become a good fighter from learning karate but that does not even compare to what you could become if you studied some other arts and mixed them up. for instance i am taking wrestling right now and i know how to box and this summer i'm taking MT.

Kata can teach a lot. Regimented self-defense techniques can teach a lot. Sparring can teach a lot. Drills of basic moves can teach a lot. But without a quality martial artist teaching these lessons, these will be empty exercises, only partly understood and probably ineffective when needed.

i agree with all that except the kata part. i do not what so ever believe kata is a good means of training.

i just hate it when people that are in karate think that it is just devestating and that it will bestow great fighting powers on you.

 

[chufeng]

PA,

i just think that karate is ineffective

OK, you win...

Nobody here has anything of value for you...move along.
I want to talk Karate; I want to talk Chuan Fa...

You are throwing stones in the pond and I think many of us want to sleep...go wake someone else up.

My last word on this...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Jill666]

I agree cross-training, once a good base is laid in one martial art, can help further develop you own effectiveness as a fighter, and deepen your understanding of what you are doing. Which is why I also study other arts. I find learning from a different perspective makes me look at what I am doing in Kenpo. (Plus you learn all this other cool $h!t)

As for being an inexperienced youngster you said it not me. :rofl:

We'll just have to agree to disagree with regards to kata. I don't expect to convince you, and don't intend to waste my time. Kenpo, Kyusho, and Taijutsu are going to be as effective as I make them. None of them will "bestow' anything on me. (wouldn't that be nice).

What art do you study Angel?

 

[Matt Stone]

Platinum Angel -

It seems fairly apparent that you are doing nothing more than stirring the pot on this issue...

You are firmly convinced that Karate will teach you nothing of worth, but then cite the amount of time it takes to earn a black belt in your art as some form of benchmark of its quality instruction.

You say that your teachers have failed to teach you anything that will prepare you for fighting, then defend your style and the amount of time (quite small, really, and by your own comments only about 10% of the way toward black belt, at which time you would only truly be able to say you had been exposed to all the basics and were ready for real study) you have invested in it.

So, as my dad used to say, ***** or get off the pot! Which is it? Either your karate training was a worthless dud (in which case you should quit or stand as a publicly announced hypocrite), or it is worthwhile and your comments are simply inflammatory rhetoric meant to foment discord.

You haven't studied long enough or deeply enough, and perhaps with the incorrect teachers, to allow you to understand much of anything. Trying to convince you is impossible. If you want to learn what traditional training really conveys, next time you are in the Tacoma area, look me up. The offer has been put out there to anyone that thinks that a) TMA are worthless, b) TMA can't teach you to fight in a short period of time, and c) forms training is just so much garbage. I guarantee I can show you they are... Whether that changes your obviously well researched, deeply studied, and strongly felt beliefs, only time could tell. Not a challenge, just an offer to learn. Others have been offered the same, and to this day have failed to take me up on it. Wonder why?

You have yet to show any proof that any of the above things are not useful. All you have done is air your opinion, and opinions remain much akin to anal sphincters...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
does that mean you've only been in karate for 6 years and you already have a black belt. it takes 10-11 years in my art. so i've had 1/4 of your experience and i'm an inexperienced youngster compared to you. :rofl: :boing1: :lol:

You have 1.5 years of training. That's not even enough time to learn how to stand properly! I would bet money that, with that little time spent in training, there are thousands of flaws in the techniques you think are most worthless that make them so. More time spent practicing and less time spent karate-bashing would help iron out some of those issues...

i just think that karate is ineffective.

And the vast experience you base this observation on is what exactly? How many schools have you attended and trained at? How many styles of karate (or other martial arts) have you been exposed to deeply enough to really "understand" what was going on?

i agree after so many years you will become a good fighter from learning karate but that does not even compare to what you could become if you studied some other arts and mixed them up.

So first you say that karate is ineffective, then you say it is effective. Which is it? I'm starting to get dizzy...

As for mixing them up... So, you advocate learning a few arts superficially, then attempting to mix what you don't know all that well together? That's like saying that since you have taken a first aid class, you are now qualified to perform surgery... Not likely, not likely at all...

for instance i am taking wrestling right now and i know how to box and this summer i'm taking MT.

You know how to box? Really? How many bouts do you have under your belt? What's your record?

This summer you're taking Muay Thai? Really? Well, this summer I think I'll take a college class. The difference is that, when the my class is over, I will have all the material and can put it into practice. Muay Thai, or any other martial art, is not a "class" you take to have all the knowledge bequeathed upon you.

i agree with all that except the kata part. i do not what so ever believe kata is a good means of training.

You say this most likely because a) you don't have enough time in training to realize what all is contained in a form, b) your teachers don't know the forms well enough to convey the information to you, c) the teachers don't know the information in the first place, d) you are an impatient youngster who lacks the discipline and wisdom necessary to simply do what you are told in order to reap the benefits later fo training now, or e) a host of other possibilities.

Come to Tacoma, and we will demonstrate for you the usefulness of forms training.

i just hate it when people that are in karate think that it is just devestating and that it will bestow great fighting powers on you.

And I just hate it when people that have only limited knowledge and information make broad sweeping judgements about subjects they know little about.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Jill666]

I was trying to be nice to the lad :rofl:

Ah, the sweet smell of brutal honesty.

 

[Matt Stone]

Yeah, well, I try...

Seriously, though -

There are superubergajillions of crap schools teaching crap arts to ignorant and unsuspecting people. The teachers thrive on the ignorance of the public to support their claims to ubersenseihood. Because the unsuspecting public doesn't know any better, some idiot shodan or nidan can start a school catering to his or her own ego gratification. He or she "self-promotes," is "recognized" by some outside organization, and then passes himself or herself off as UberSensei while raking in the tuition of the hapless passers-by who fall for his line of hooey...

There are alos superubergajillions of crap schools catering to the MMA myth that TMA are all crap (as evidenced by the schools falling under the above example), and that they have the secret to creating MMAist SuperUberUFCGodlikeChampionFighters within the next week or two, catering to the aggresion, arrogance, innate rebellious nature, and suspicion of the folks that were pissed off by the schools from the above example that they were bilked by.

I suspect our dear Platinum Angel falls in between those descriptions somewhere...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

This thread is amusingly silent now... :shrug:

Gambarimasu.
:asian: