Creative Forms

[Jon Crafter]

Hi

I am new to the style of Taekwondo, with my previous style being Goju Ryu (karate) At the moment I haven't joined a TKD class yet but I am preparing myself to join one next year. What I have found is that GR gave me a great foundation for TKD, as we only ever learnt four kicks in two years (front, side, round, back) and mastered these kicks and many different blocking and punching techniques. The past few months I have been researching TKD and practising the kicks, which I found quite easy to do, despite lacking somewhat in the flexibility aspect (which I am working on.)
The kicks that I feel entirely comfortable with at this stage are: The four basic kicks, 360 turning kicks, hook kicks and spinning hook kicks, jumping kicks, axe kicks and crescent kicks. I can't do the advanced kicks like the 540 round or hook kick but I would rather perfect the other kicks before I work on those.
Something that immediately drew my attention was the compelling idea of creative forms. When I was still doing karate I used to love forms and won a gold medal in a competition for it once, but there were no creative forms competitions. With TKD it seems like there are quite a few opportunities for creativity and I would love to take part in a creative forms competition (after I get an instructor of course)
I have watched many videos of creative forms being done and one thing that bothered me was that most of them either contain a lot of punches / open hand techniques or ridiculously difficult gymnastics flips. Why do most people use these to such extremities? If I had to do a creative form it would be something like: Left foot inside to outside crescent kick, right 360 kick, left spinning hook kick, right roundhouse, left 360 kick, left front kick, skipping hook kick left leg, left turning back kick, left spinning hook kick, left reverse sweep, cartwheel (?) Should there be less kicks and more punching / flipping?
These forms are truly interesting to me but I think I need a bit more clarification on them, so does anyone have advice for me as to what a creative form should look like or how you should go about creating one?

Thanks

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have watched many videos of creative forms being done and one thing that bothered me was that most of them either contain a lot of punches / open hand techniques or ridiculously difficult gymnastics flips. Why do most people use these to such extremities?

This is not real martial arts (the flipping part). Flipping like that in a real fight will get you knocked out. The gymnastic stuff that you are seeing is probably more to showcase agility.

The first question you should ask yourself is do you want to learn martial arts as a self-defense or as a sport? The answer will help you to determine what type of instructor you should look for. I wouldn't waste time training on my own until that question is answered, because if you want self-defense then all of your time spent on fancy kicks is just wasting your time.

 

[TrueJim]

I'm not an expert, but...

I suspect the development of a creative form is driven in part by whatever the rules are being used for the competition at which the form will be performed? I've seen some tournament rules that say things like, "The following techniques have to be included somewhere in the form..." or "The form has to include at least X number of standard techniques..."

So if you're going to re-use the same creative form at multiple tournaments, I'd imagine you'd probably want to "play it safe" in the design of the form, and make sure you hit a fair number of typical techniques that most tournament rules call for?

That doesn't really answer your question though, since you'd think that basic kicks would be in the intersection of mandatory techniques used at varied tournaments.

Secondly...tournament rules I've seen for creative forms have all the usual buzzwords (power, accuracy, balance, rhythm, etc.) in the judging criteria, but then they also talk about the beauty of the form and the degree-of-difficulty. So I'd guess the gymnastic tricking that's done is probably tucked into the creative design in order to push-up the judge's perception of the degree-of-difficulty.

Still...you'd think a creative form could have lots of tricking AND lots of kicking and still scratch both those itches.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The trick with "Spontaneous Forms" it that you have to visualize a real opponents with real attacks. Other than that, it should occur on different angles, cover different attacks, and again, make sense.

 

[Jon Crafter]

This is not real martial arts (the flipping part). Flipping like that in a real fight will get you knocked out. The gymnastic stuff that you are seeing is probably more to showcase agility.

The first question you should ask yourself is do you want to learn martial arts as a self-defense or as a sport? The answer will help you to determine what type of instructor you should look for. I wouldn't waste time training on my own until that question is answered, because if you want self-defense then all of your time spent on fancy kicks is just wasting your time.

Goju Ryu covered the self-defense aspect enough and I am confident in my self-defense so I am more interested in sport TKD. There is only one instructor in my area anyway so I'll have to take what is given.

I'm not an expert, but...

I suspect the development of a creative form is driven in part by whatever the rules are being used for the competition at which the form will be performed? I've seen some tournament rules that say things like, "The following techniques have to be included somewhere in the form..." or "The form has to include at least X number of standard techniques..."

So if you're going to re-use the same creative form at multiple tournaments, I'd imagine you'd probably want to "play it safe" in the design of the form, and make sure you hit a fair number of typical techniques that most tournament rules call for?

That doesn't really answer your question though, since you'd think that basic kicks would be in the intersection of mandatory techniques used at varied tournaments.

Secondly...tournament rules I've seen for creative forms have all the usual buzzwords (power, accuracy, balance, rhythm, etc.) in the judging criteria, but then they also talk about the beauty of the form and the degree-of-difficulty. So I'd guess the gymnastic tricking that's done is probably tucked into the creative design in order to push-up the judge's perception of the degree-of-difficulty.

Still...you'd think a creative form could have lots of tricking AND lots of kicking and still scratch both those itches.

I am still unsure of the rules of competitions in my area so I should probably choose a safe option, but I don't see why there would be a problem with being diverse with regards to kicks.
If a certain amount of punches are required, how should I put those into the form? Kicking the air looks impressive but punching it seems a bit jerky and odd. In karate we usually practised air punching to work on the power and control aspects but it never seemed nearly as graceful as kicking, unless we did it slowly which is useless.

 

[TrueJim]

If a certain amount of punches are required, how should I put those into the form?

I don't even know that you'd need to add a certain number of punches, more likely you'd just have to have at least a couple punches. In other words, I've never seen rules that say, "Make sure your form has at least 10 punches..." but I have seen rules that say, "Make sure your form has all of the following: punches, knife hand strikes, low blocks..." etc. So as long as you have a couple punches, you should be okay.

If punching in the air feels awkward to you, my thought would be to include the punches as part of some combinations within your form. Like maybe a kick-punch-strike sort of combo, so that your punch isn't left hanging out there for too long.

Also, you'll probably want the form to be somewhat symmetric, so that for every technique you perform, the judges will see you do it once on the right side and then again later on the left side.

Also, you might want to consider what kind of "symbolism" you may want to incorporate into your form. In a lot of taekwondo forms (even from different styles of taekwondo) it's commonplace for the form to have an underlying theme. For instance Taegeuk Yook Jang is supposed to symbolize "water", so you see a lot of combinations that have you flowing around your opponent and wearing him down (like water would), and the floor-pattern traces-out the I Ching trigram for 'water'. Or as another example,Taegeuk Chil Jang is supposed to symbolize "mountain" so you see 'stopping'-blocks (rather than deflecting blocks) like the low cross-block, demonstrating that you are "immovable, unyielding" like a mountain. Likewise in ITF/Chang Hon-style taekwondo, the patterns are intended to reflect important elements of Korean history. So as you design your own creative form, you might want to start-off by picking some sort of theme: maybe something that's of special significance to you, and think about how you can reflect that in the design of your form. Don't get carried away with the symbolism of course...just an occasional hint of underlying meaning should be enough to inspire some imaginative thinking and perhaps add to the aesthetics of your design.

 

[skribs]

I've never done creative forms, but I think it's basically "look what I can do." I'm not saying anything judgmental about it (I will show off my backflips in class every once in a while, and it is nothing more than "look what I can do").

I think there are three types of martial arts techniques:

• Art: "look what I can do" or "look how well I can fight imaginary enemies"
• Sport: "I can score points to prove I'm a man" or "I can beat someone up legally"
• Defense: The "I can defend myself so long as you attack me this specific way and don't counter it"

Okay, these are all ridiculous oversimplifications, but you get the idea. There are things you can get out of various aspects of the art, and they each have their pluses and minuses.

Art techniques are things like practicing your basic techniques, doing your advanced techniques (540 kicks, gymnastics, tricking), which merely showcase your agility, power, or expertise, but not your ability to handle a live opponent or attacker. These are nice for improving your "stats" (i.e. strength, speed, stamina) but don't get you much real-world experience. Your standard forms are going to focus on strength and technique (especially forms with deeper stances focusing on leg strength, and the emphasis on snap power focusing on technique strength/expertise), and your more acrobatic techniques will focus on speed/agility.

Sport techniques may not be the most effective in self defense (as all of the really effective ways to damage the body are going to be banned by legitimate sporting authorities), but they provide an effective way to work on timing and reading opponents. I think Taekwondo Sparring, for example, focuses on the harder-to-succeed techniques in sport, where I would opt for a palm to the nose, a kick to the groin/knee, boxing the ears, jabbing the eyes, or simply drawing my pistol and shooting someone in self defense. However, the sparring does teach you timing and how to fake out your opponent. I think someone with extensive sparring experience has the most experience against a live opponent in a reactive environment, as opposed to following scripted defenses that are most of what I've seen in self defense portions of classes.

Defense techniques are those techniques I mentioned above - quick hits to vulnerable body parts designed to cause extensive damage. The downside to these techniques is you can NEVER practice them full-force against a live opponent, and often have to resort to scripted one-step sparring drills in order to practice them against a live opponent. The more you mix-and-match techniques (i.e. a wrist lock, a throw, and some strikes in one combination), the harder it is to practice against bags.

Overall, if you want to do creative forms, do them. Don't worry too much about what others are doing in them - do what you are good at and capable of doing. If you want to do what others are, then build up to that skill and add it into your form. Otherwise, do you. I've never seen a competition for it, but I think it's not very creative if you're only doing what everyone else is doing. Creativity is making something your own.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I've never done creative forms, but I think it's basically "look what I can do." I'm not saying anything judgmental about it (I will show off my backflips in class every once in a while, and it is nothing more than "look what I can do").

I think there are three types of martial arts techniques:

• Art: "look what I can do" or "look how well I can fight imaginary enemies"
• Sport: "I can score points to prove I'm a man" or "I can beat someone up legally"
• Defense: The "I can defend myself so long as you attack me this specific way and don't counter it"

Okay, these are all ridiculous oversimplifications, but you get the idea. There are things you can get out of various aspects of the art, and they each have their pluses and minuses.

Art techniques are things like practicing your basic techniques, doing your advanced techniques (540 kicks, gymnastics, tricking), which merely showcase your agility, power, or expertise, but not your ability to handle a live opponent or attacker. These are nice for improving your "stats" (i.e. strength, speed, stamina) but don't get you much real-world experience. Your standard forms are going to focus on strength and technique (especially forms with deeper stances focusing on leg strength, and the emphasis on snap power focusing on technique strength/expertise), and your more acrobatic techniques will focus on speed/agility.

Sport techniques may not be the most effective in self defense (as all of the really effective ways to damage the body are going to be banned by legitimate sporting authorities), but they provide an effective way to work on timing and reading opponents. I think Taekwondo Sparring, for example, focuses on the harder-to-succeed techniques in sport, where I would opt for a palm to the nose, a kick to the groin/knee, boxing the ears, jabbing the eyes, or simply drawing my pistol and shooting someone in self defense. However, the sparring does teach you timing and how to fake out your opponent. I think someone with extensive sparring experience has the most experience against a live opponent in a reactive environment, as opposed to following scripted defenses that are most of what I've seen in self defense portions of classes.

Defense techniques are those techniques I mentioned above - quick hits to vulnerable body parts designed to cause extensive damage. The downside to these techniques is you can NEVER practice them full-force against a live opponent, and often have to resort to scripted one-step sparring drills in order to practice them against a live opponent. The more you mix-and-match techniques (i.e. a wrist lock, a throw, and some strikes in one combination), the harder it is to practice against bags.

Overall, if you want to do creative forms, do them. Don't worry too much about what others are doing in them - do what you are good at and capable of doing. If you want to do what others are, then build up to that skill and add it into your form. Otherwise, do you. I've never seen a competition for it, but I think it's not very creative if you're only doing what everyone else is doing. Creativity is making something your own.

There is no such thing as being creative, you are being extemporaneous, which often passes for creativity. That being said, it may be a, "Look what I can do.", to your friends, but it is really more about, "Look how well, I can do it."

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is no such thing as being creative, you are being extemporaneous, which often passes for creativity. ."

From Dictionary.com

extemporaneous
[ik-stem-puh-rey-nee-uh s] /ɪkˌstɛm pəˈreɪ ni əs/

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

adjective
1.
done, spoken, performed, etc., without special advance preparation; impromptu:
an extemporaneous speech.
2.
previously planned but delivered with the help of few or no notes:
extemporaneous lectures.
3.
speaking or performing with little or no advance preparation:


Creative forms as seen in competition by top competitors are rarely extemporaneous. They are done after extensive advance planning or preparation. They are in fact creative because they bare supposed to be "Created" using elemnets put together in an arrangement not previously used.

 

[Touch Of Death]

From Dictionary.com

extemporaneous
[ik-stem-puh-rey-nee-uh s] /ɪkˌstɛm pəˈreɪ ni əs/

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

adjective
1.
done, spoken, performed, etc., without special advance preparation; impromptu:
an extemporaneous speech.
2.
previously planned but delivered with the help of few or no notes:
extemporaneous lectures.
3.
speaking or performing with little or no advance preparation:


Creative forms as seen in competition by top competitors are rarely extemporaneous. They are done after extensive advance planning or preparation. They are in fact creative because they bare supposed to be "Created" using elemnets put together in an arrangement not previously used.

Your meager time, putting it together, still counts as extemporaneous.

 

[WaterGal]

Yeah, the creative forms I've seen seemed very well planned and rehearsed, not extemporaneous at all. Especially when people do them to music, which have to be carefully choreographed so the techniques are in time with the beat. (I saw one a while back that was to a hip-hop song and had a bunch of break-dancing moves in it, which cracked me up, but did clearly involve a lot of skill.)

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is no such thing as being creative, you are being extemporaneous, which often passes for creativity.

Please tell me you don't watch Bill Orielly on fox news lol.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Please tell me you don't watch Bill Orielly on fox news lol.

No, but imagine a world that only God created, and we just play with the stuff.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Your meager time, putting it together, still counts as extemporaneous.

Within this attempt at humor ("meager time") may lie some hidden wisdom. "Traditional" forms were likely created by various founders / pioneers of an art. I can't help but wonder how much time / thought (or perhaps how little) may have been spent on putting stuff together with practitioners often thinking it was a lot more than it really was.

Kind of like literature class where readers discuss "hidden meanings" and analogies in stories. Once read an item by Kur Vonnegut discussing his thoughts on some analysis of his work where he said: "I never knew my story contained all that stuff".

 

[Buka]

There are new-age and anatomical foundations to be considered when developing a Creative Form -

It's gotta' look really cool.

 

[Koshiki]

Once read an item by Kur Vonnegut discussing his thoughts on some analysis of his work where he said: "I never knew my story contained all that stuff".

Oh, I'm quite certain that the vast majority of applications I pull from forms were never intended by the forms originators, previous teachers in my lineage, or in many cases even my own instructors...

That said, if it works, and the form is what inspired you to try it...

As far as creative performance forms, I have no idea, and less interest, so I suppose I should probably stop sidetracking and duck out now.

Bye!