Creationism to get place in Wisconsin classes

[Flatlander]

So...farmers tend to vote Republican. Even Yankee farmers. Farmers tend towards fundamentalism. The liberals tend to congregate in the cities.

For the most part, this pattern is the same in Canada.

 

[raedyn]

Currently, this is true of Canada. But more historically some of the rural areas (such as Saskatchewan) have been strongholds of socialism. Examples: the co-op movement, trade unionism, home of medicare. I wonder why the idelogical shift?

 

[heretic888]

Holy crap (pardon the pun)!!

I'm gone for a day or two, and Jack gives us his *counts* fourth Farewell Tour. Like KISS, I sincerely doubt it'll be the last one, either.

All this does validate an idea I've had for quite some time. That, whenever there's a "personal god" in someone's belief system --- as opposed to Meister Eckhart's Godhead, Nagarjuna's Shunyata, Thomas Merton's Ground of Being, Plotinus' the Absolute, Plato's the One, Lao Tzu's Tao, or Shankara's Brahman-Atman --- its really little more than an elevated projection of the speaker's superego (to use a Freudian term).

Liberal pacifist types have liberal pacifist "gods" (and "Jesuses"). Fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist types have fire-and-brimstone "gods" (and "Jesuses"). Rational, positivist types lean toward deism. Nature-loving types learn toward pantheism and Gaia. So on and so on.

P'jack, clearly, does not break from this projectionist trend. An intolerant, biggoted god for an intolerant, biggoted jack-in-the-box.

 

[raedyn]

I think you will find, Herrie, that Jack will have difficulty returning because he is a banned user. I *think* (and don't quote me on this) that means his IP is also banned. When he made it a significantly personal attack, he stepped way over the line, IMO.

 

[heretic888]

Well, we can always hope can't we??

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hes banned. If he returns as someone else, we will escalate the administrative response, as needed.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Hes banned. If he returns as someone else, we will escalate the administrative response, as needed.

I like that word, "escalate."

Can we call in an airstrike on his position?


Regards,


Steve

 

[bignick]

So...farmers tend to vote Republican. Even Yankee farmers. Farmers tend towards fundamentalism. The liberals tend to congregate in the cities.

not always true...minnesota is pretty rural...and my home county is as rural as it gets and the voter turn out was around 97-98% with the county going to Kerry....strangely...where most people think liberals are located, the youth in college...i see quite differently...the apparent numbers of Bush supporters here on campus appear to heavily outweigh the liberals

oh well, i'm awfully purple with a definite blue hue during this last election...

and of course we all know that it ain't easy being green

 

[5 hand swords]

The inability to employ inflection over the internet does get annoying at times. For clarification, my comment was sarcastic.

Creationism is, in no way, shape, or form, a scientific theory. Those who say that it is think that something is a "scientific theory" if all it does is explain stuff. Science does that, but to qualify as a scientific theory, you need a hell of a lot more: a hypothesis, refutability, verification, all that stuff.

I just think Religion should be a elective extracurricular thing if it is in public school at all - they can fight it out for the collage level teachers cheap if they tithe it instead of tax it for funding.
LOL

 

[5 hand swords]

Creationism to get place in Wisconsin classes

Hey I got a Problem with Priests in Public Schools!
;with all the little impresionable kids you know, It's not Catholic School people. It's Public school do we add DiskWorld theroy next? I am not forbidding discussion of the topic but in science class, can the teacher explain why the materal is included?

Use Math

 

[5 hand swords]

Hey I got a Problem with Priests in Public Schools!
;with all the little impresionable kids you know, It's not Catholic School people. It's Public school do we add DiskWorld theroy next? I am not forbidding discussion of the topic but in science class, can the teacher explain why the materal is included?
Use Math

Legal status of teaching this in WI vs. 50 others of the super-set involved would be a start for a place to get numbers from, Religion in politics and its role in the community would be other areas I recommend inclusion of.

 

[5 hand swords]

bad bad bad - where delete?

 

[someguy]

This whole evolution and Georgia thing is abit dear to me. I dunnowhy oh wait might be where I live sooooo.....
I would like to say this. I love the south for the most part. Y'all have heard 'bout southern hospitality. Now we can't spel to good sometime. Wait thats just me always.
The south also can be the most annoying place ever. Sure you can smack people around when you get bored though. Here is how "Hey Bubba Creationism is wrong" From here a fight ensuse. usually with words. People will hold on to their views no matter how much you show them yor right though. I think we have seen proof of that here on this thread.
I also have seen people drop a class because Neitzche said "God is dead."
Well I blame the education. I blame people like Cathy Cox(or is it Kathy Cox there are two of 'em in power round here) Wait I blame the voters. But I blame there education. But I blame people like Cathy Cox.
Cathy(or Kathy) Cox is the Georgia School Superintendent person lady.
What purpose did this rant of mine have. Well education need's help.

I'm not saying people who don't belive in evolution are dumb mind you. There are some really smart people who belive in creationism I know. One of my aunts does and she is very smart. She does stuff with lasers and junk that i'll only nod my head pretending to understand about the word after parabolic(who knows what a mirror is)
Well hope that wasn't to confusafying for you. I know I can be some times err alot of the time. All I'm saying here is well amongst other things don't hold Georgia against Georgia. Education will get better. In some places it is horrible but getting better. And evolution v. creationsim battle is kind of slowly dieing I think.
Oh and one more thing if y'all ever say anything bad about my State I'll come kick your sorry Yankee____ ____________________________ _____________ ___________ _____ __________ _______ ____________ ________ ____ _______ ____ _____ _____. You fill in the blanks. It's like mad libs with cuss words. But take nothing I say to seriously and peace.

 

[heretic888]

*blinks* :lookie:

 

[Makalakumu]

Parmandjack anticipated we wouldn't be kind. Upnorth was, somewhat, to his credit. This last post of Parmandjack's is so hateful, however, that I have to answer it as I see fit. I may not be kind.

I look at the fact that there are 80 million right wing christian voters and that these people basically voted GW Bush into office in 2004. I do not like the hateful tone that many of these guys take and I do not like the way these guys promote an agenda that is so obviously anti-intellectual.

Yet if you look at what these people are saying and feeling and you compare it to what people have got to say regarding transformational education experiences, you inevitablely come to the conclusion that the protection of these inane principles is more then just pride. It is more then arrogence. they are defending their very being.

Take a look at what Friere has to say about transformational experiences. the evangelical movement is all about making a life change. It is all about reshaping everything fiber in your body and spirit until it fits this model of purity, humility, and submisiveness to the word of Jesus...as interpretted by the High Priest.

In my opinion, this is sad and degrading to a person's humanity, but it exists all of the same.

Can education make a difference when faced with this type of organization and this type of societal structure? I think that it can. I believe that learning can take place if the people feel that you are talking to them as an equal. I believe that by reaching out and understanding this internal conflict with an external reality, we can affect more change.

I think that a lot of liberals, myself included, have approached these positions with disbelief, disdain and outright hostility and I think that these attitudes have embolded people against reason and reality. They view us not as their equals and as their enemies.

How can they learn when faced with this conflict?

There fore, I think that we need to make an effort to undestand that for these people the information presented is going to be upsetting. It is going to challenge. It is going to alter if its allowed to sink in.

If that means accepting creationism as a theory only to destroy it when comparing it to evolution, so be it. I've worked with Dr. Standly Lewis throughout the West and I've seen evolution in action in real life and with my own hands in the fossil record. There is NO better theory that explains our origins as of yet.

Getting people to understand this is going to require a little compassion...even when faced with jackassery...because its only a symptom of the transformational experience they have undergone.

upnorthkyosa

PS - I realize that certain behaviors require sanctions based on forum policy...this post addresses dealing with this 80 million person voting block in general.

 

[heretic888]

Yet if you look at what these people are saying and feeling and you compare it to what people have got to say regarding transformational education experiences, you inevitablely come to the conclusion that the protection of these inane principles is more then just pride. It is more then arrogence. they are defending their very being.

Beliefs are the life-support system of the self (or "ego"). If you try and pull the plug, what is literally experienced is a death-threat. Thus, the hostility.

 

[Flatlander]

Upnorth, that was a fantastic post. Very eloquent. I liked this:

If that means accepting creationism as a theory only to destroy it when comparing it to evolution, so be it.

 

[loki09789]

I wasn't aware that was the point.

What if one believes that all human beings come from a race of superbeings hiding in a space-ship that follows closely behind comet Hale-Bopp?

Does Heaven's Gate get equal time?

If they organize, lobby and petition for it they have the chance to get the equal time. Just because you don't agree with/are personally judging it as invalid does not mean that they don't have the right to feel, think and believe that way - or that they should be blocked from representation if they can run a strong enough lobby to push the issue forward. Do I think it is rational or reasonable? Maybe it isn't as crazy as believing in the ressurection of a human being and his assention into the devine?

Some folks have argued that the planet was seeded by meteors that struck the earth and carried bacteria...

It is public school, depending on the mission and focus of the state and local schools, giving equal time might be considered appropriate.

Should demonstration/parade permits be denied KKK and Hate groups because they present a minority view? I personally find it detestable that they can have access to those kinds of venues, but as an American Citizen, they have that right.

 

[Flatlander]

If they organize, lobby and petition for it they have the chance to get the equal time. Just because you don't agree with/are personally judging it as invalid does not mean that they don't have the right to feel, think and believe that way - or that they should be blocked from representation if they can run a strong enough lobby to push the issue forward. Do I think it is rational or reasonable? Maybe it isn't as crazy as believing in the ressurection of a human being and his assention into the devine?

Paul, I agree with this, as it seems reasonable, fair, and balanced.

Should demonstration/parade permits be denied KKK and Hate groups because they present a minority view? I personally find it detestable that they can have access to those kinds of venues, but as an American Citizen, they have that right.

This, I do not. These groups, by definition, seek to infringe on the rights of other groups. They exist to encourage themselves and others to commit crimes against humanity. I believe that because of that, they should not be extended the freedoms of assembly or expression.

 

[Nightingale]

if the KKK want to have a parade, parents have the option to keep their kids away. Kids must go to school.