Creationism to get place in Wisconsin classes

[michaeledward]

The rhetoric of Bob Jones club for holy boys and girls aside ....

I believe that the President is going to do exactly what the Evangelicals are asking of him. Although the 'Christian Right' may think it is because they delivered the vote, it is probably more likely that those are the President's own leanings.

All the talk over the last week about the President 'looking to his legacy' and 'moving more to the center', I believe is wishful thinking. The President made it clear, in no uncertain terms, during the debates that the American people can, quote; "KNOW (pound on the podium) WHERE (pound on the podium) I (pound on the podium) STAND (pound on the podium)."

I was very strongly for Kerry during this last election because I refuse to misunderestimate the President again. In 2000, he told us he would be a compassionate conservative and then appointed John Ashcroft as Attorney General. This was very clear. The President has ruled from the far right for the last four years. I take him at his word... I don't think our Supreme Court Justices can hold out another four years.

m

 

[Rich Parsons]

Ugh. Maybe it really is the End Times after all. :shrug: :shrug:

*vomits in disgust*

Wow, We agree

:shrug:

 

[heretic888]

Wow, We agree

:shrug:

Looks like.

 

[parmandjack]

and in Atlanta too...

....maybe its time to open your minids to other ideas eh?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41437

 

[Flatlander]

From your own article,

By contrast, evolution and intelligent design are not provable by empirical observation and are therefore not truly scientific theories at all. Each theory does possess scientific character because they each attempt to correlate and explain scientific data. Yet, both intelligent design and evolution are best characterized as explanatory models on mans' origins. They are philosophical and historical in nature, not empirical.

Creation belongs not in a science class.

 

[Flatlander]

From your own article:

A trial opened Monday over a warning sticker placed in suburban Atlanta biology textbooks that says evolution is "a theory, not a fact." The sticker reads, "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

They are not teaching Creation in the classroom, they are questioning the validity of evolution, which is fine by me. That's what theories are for, to be probed, contemplated, and held up to the light of criticism.

 

[parmandjack]

From your own article, Creation belongs not in a science class.

... and as you lend credence to the article... neither does evolution.... thats teh point...


Anyway, this will be my last post to this site...

AS I noted form the beginning, only those who are proponents of evolution, and only those who are liberal "christians" (yes fiesty this means you) , are allowed to express the kinds of arrogance, bigotry, hatred, and vicious personal assaults that has been the halmark of this web site against born again people... when I respond in kind, but with much less vitriol, I am threatened with barring...

I have been "warned" and "threatened" by mod's in the past, and now Seig has make silencing the real believers his personal mission... i have to be nice to you while you are rude and slanderous towads me... i simply cant stomach it anymore... but hey,... thats teh goal of these supposed "exchange of ideas" right... keep slamming the person who disagrees with you till they leave...

however...the amount of bias, bigotry, and downright hatred towards true bible-believing christians emanating from you on this site is revolting...

... whether you believe it or not, Jesus is God, and God is real, and Jesus created everything... your puffed up chests wont change anything... the bible sez what it sez... God said what He meant, and meant what He said...He doesnt need hypocrits like fiesty claiming salvation through Jesus, then denying that Jesus (the source of her believed salvation) was a liar and wrong... which you did, even though you will deny this and try to explain the bible away...

...argue all you want about it, especially you fiesty... you are wrong.. i dont read little bits here and there - i read the whole bible, and leave it all in its original context, something you refuse to do [fiesty and other pretend christians] because that method of study would highlight your glaring ignorance, and ruin the bubble you have created for yourself in your delusion of salvation by the God you claim is wrong...

I have therefore responded to Seig's threats by telling him in no uncertain terms which part of my anatomy he can kiss, and advised him to go ahead and ban me from this close-minded site...

I may be born again, but unlike you primadonas and hypocrits pretending to be christians, I am fallible, and fall well short of God's desire for us.. I can only ask and receive forgiveness from God for my rightious anger and words against the hypocrits on this site....

I therfore "shake" the proverbial "dust from my sandals" as I leave this little internet clubhouse full of disbelieving vipers, poisonous ideas, and theologically corrupt wolves in sheeps clothing like fiesty...

I know the character assassinations and the rest of the vileness that you contain will follow my departure, but rest assured, as fallible I am, God is just as True to His Word... for those of you who may really be interested in true christianity, please don't iassume that my disgust with this group of self-involved and arrogant "intellectuals" ... hahaha,, is reflective of Jesus.. this is my own fallen self speaking...

Judgement Day is coming, whether you agree or not...

May God Save your lost souls...

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. Evolution rests on EMPIRICAL grounds that in fact are rock solid--as solid, indeed, as anything in science. You don't have to believe that--because a) it isn't a matter of belief, and b) Nature doesn't care whether or not you believe in Nature.

2. Those, "innocent," stickers were put there to placate a radical fundamentalist Protestant group. One is as outraged as one would be to open a science text and read a sticker saying, "the theory of the heliocentric solar system and the expanding universe is just a theory, and...," or to open a history text and read, "the idea of equal treatment under the law propounded by the 14th Amendment is just a legal theory, and...." This is exactly the same tactic as "silent meditation," and all those, "student-led," prayers before games, and should be understood as a tactic. Go scope out the specific strategies advocaated by groups like the Institute for Creation Studies.

3. Make no mistake: none of this has anything whatsoever to do with open-mindedness, fairness, or any other such thing. If it did, these folks would take the risk of actual debate rather than simply bullying and Bible-thumping.

 

[Flatlander]

Anyway, this will be my last post to this site...

Well, I'm sorry to hear you're leaving forever, but, in your travels, should you find a fact which supports your position, please come share it with us.

 

[Adept]

whether you believe it or not, Jesus is God, and God is real, and Jesus created everything

Prove it.

 

[Nightingale]

:feedtroll

 

[RandomPhantom700]

No feeding necessary. Parmy's running off his own proverbial fumes.

 

[Cruentus]

My brain is now leaking out of my head...this is really a dumb thread.

Especially considering that I can PROVE imperically that creationism is not only not a scientific theory, but completely false to boot.

Proof: If Adam had a rib removed to make a Eve, then Adam would have less ribs. With less ribs, he would have achieved every man's deep down goal of being able to bury his head into his own crotch. If Adam could bury his head into his own crotch, then he wouldn't have needed Eve for anything, and humankind would have been lost.

So you see, creationism is completely false, which is all for the better of humankind....

Paul

 

[Makalakumu]

... and as you lend credence to the article... neither does evolution.... thats teh point...


Anyway, this will be my last post to this site...

AS I noted form the beginning, only those who are proponents of evolution, and only those who are liberal "christians" (yes fiesty this means you) , are allowed to express the kinds of arrogance, bigotry, hatred, and vicious personal assaults that has been the halmark of this web site against born again people... when I respond in kind, but with much less vitriol, I am threatened with barring...

I have been "warned" and "threatened" by mod's in the past, and now Seig has make silencing the real believers his personal mission... i have to be nice to you while you are rude and slanderous towads me... i simply cant stomach it anymore... but hey,... thats teh goal of these supposed "exchange of ideas" right... keep slamming the person who disagrees with you till they leave...

however...the amount of bias, bigotry, and downright hatred towards true bible-believing christians emanating from you on this site is revolting...

... whether you believe it or not, Jesus is God, and God is real, and Jesus created everything... your puffed up chests wont change anything... the bible sez what it sez... God said what He meant, and meant what He said...He doesnt need hypocrits like fiesty claiming salvation through Jesus, then denying that Jesus (the source of her believed salvation) was a liar and wrong... which you did, even though you will deny this and try to explain the bible away...

...argue all you want about it, especially you fiesty... you are wrong.. i dont read little bits here and there - i read the whole bible, and leave it all in its original context, something you refuse to do [fiesty and other pretend christians] because that method of study would highlight your glaring ignorance, and ruin the bubble you have created for yourself in your delusion of salvation by the God you claim is wrong...

I have therefore responded to Seig's threats by telling him in no uncertain terms which part of my anatomy he can kiss, and advised him to go ahead and ban me from this close-minded site...

I may be born again, but unlike you primadonas and hypocrits pretending to be christians, I am fallible, and fall well short of God's desire for us.. I can only ask and receive forgiveness from God for my rightious anger and words against the hypocrits on this site....

I therfore "shake" the proverbial "dust from my sandals" as I leave this little internet clubhouse full of disbelieving vipers, poisonous ideas, and theologically corrupt wolves in sheeps clothing like fiesty...

I know the character assassinations and the rest of the vileness that you contain will follow my departure, but rest assured, as fallible I am, God is just as True to His Word... for those of you who may really be interested in true christianity, please don't iassume that my disgust with this group of self-involved and arrogant "intellectuals" ... hahaha,, is reflective of Jesus.. this is my own fallen self speaking...

Judgement Day is coming, whether you agree or not...

May God Save your lost souls...

I appreciate the fact that you had the courage to present your beliefs so strongly on this matter. Look at the length of this thread. Look at the depth of the discussion. Finally, take a look at what people are saying. Not the abrasiveness, but the points...I know you believe strongly in God, Jesus, the Bible and Creationism and it can be very difficult to see those beliefs challenged...and I have a fair bit of empathy for that.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Parmandjack anticipated we wouldn't be kind. Upnorth was, somewhat, to his credit. This last post of Parmandjack's is so hateful, however, that I have to answer it as I see fit. I may not be kind.


Anyway, this will be my last post to this site...

I have mixed feelings about that. Having a Fundamentalist of this caliber on the Forum showcases a form of bigotry seemingly unique to the United States, and we need to acknowledge it by having it up front and center for all to see. Parmandjack is not a caricature. He is one of a large subset of Americans who live their lives by a creed of hatred, and who mock the teachings of the Lord they profess to follow. (Matt. 7:2-7:5)

AS I noted form the beginning, only those who are proponents of evolution, and only those who are liberal "christians" (yes fiesty this means you) , are allowed to express the kinds of arrogance, bigotry, hatred, and vicious personal assaults that has been the halmark of this web site against born again people...

I have known Feisty for about two years now. She is kind, gentle, and generous. She is articulate and well educated. For those on this forum who have befriended her, if you're ever fortunate enough to meet her you'll quickly note her eyes, which betray her sensitivity and warmth.

To term her as a vicious, arrogant bigot is easily one of the stupidest and most mean spirited things I have ever read on this forum, but certainly not beyond Parmandjack. Feisty and others have raised a mirror to him and he has cast about blindly what he has seen within it. Much of it has been directed at her.

I'll offer this to her as a counter: If anything I say or write carries any substance with you Feisty, then know that I consider you one of the finest people that I have ever met. Standing up to a man like Parmandjack only increases my esteem for you and the pride I have for you as my friend.

You seem to draw invective from guys like Parmandjack, Feisty. They come at you with a degree of animosity that is unprovoked and surprising...I suspect its because you're a woman that speaks her mind. In doing so you readily expose the disparity of intellect between you and your antagonists. This emasculates them and exposes them as the sexist, craven cowards that they are.

Keep up the good work.



I have been "warned" and "threatened" by mod's in the past, and now Seig has make silencing the real believers his personal mission...

Note the improper use of quotation marks here by Parmandjack. "Seig," though I have often "disagreed" with him in the past, "doesn't" strike me as holding a "bias" towards Christians. Parmandjack "probably" had it coming.


i simply cant stomach it anymore... but hey,... thats teh goal of these supposed "exchange of ideas" right... keep slamming the person who disagrees with you till they leave...


My goal would have been for the young people on this thread to see Parmandjack's rants, and to note our reasoned counterpoints and challenges to him to back up what he wrote. Maybe it is misplaced optimism to think that a youngster might read this and grow from it. I have a lot of faith in young people, though, and I intend to keep that confidence well into old age.

... whether you believe it or not, Jesus is God, and God is real, and Jesus created everything... your puffed up chests wont change anything... the bible sez what it sez...

Yes. It does.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/


I therfore "shake" the proverbial "dust from my sandals" as I leave this little internet clubhouse full of disbelieving vipers, poisonous ideas, and theologically corrupt wolves in sheeps clothing like fiesty...

I do so want to meet you in person.

Proverbs 18:6 (Revised Standard Version)



May God Save your lost souls...


I'll make it a point to ask for a GPS for Christmas.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Bob Hubbard]

AS I noted form the beginning, only those who are proponents of evolution, and only those who are liberal "christians" (yes fiesty this means you) , are allowed to express the kinds of arrogance, bigotry, hatred, and vicious personal assaults that has been the halmark of this web site against born again people... when I respond in kind, but with much less vitriol, I am threatened with barring...

No, when you continue to violate the posted rules, and flame bait, you are threatened. Personal opinions expressed in most of the cases have not been any more filled with bigotry, hatred, etc than your own.

I have been "warned" and "threatened" by mod's in the past, and now Seig has make silencing the real believers his personal mission... i have to be nice to you while you are rude and slanderous towads me... i simply cant stomach it anymore... but hey,... thats teh goal of these supposed "exchange of ideas" right... keep slamming the person who disagrees with you till they leave...

No one asked you to leave. That was your choise. After seeing this little temper-tantrum however I would have banned you myself.

however...the amount of bias, bigotry, and downright hatred towards true bible-believing christians emanating from you on this site is revolting...

Considering the majority here probably is a member of some christian faith, I find your statement to be very misleading.

... whether you believe it or not, Jesus is God, and God is real, and Jesus created everything... your puffed up chests wont change anything... the bible sez what it sez... God said what He meant, and meant what He said...He doesnt need hypocrits like fiesty claiming salvation through Jesus, then denying that Jesus (the source of her believed salvation) was a liar and wrong... which you did, even though you will deny this and try to explain the bible away...

...argue all you want about it, especially you fiesty... you are wrong.. i dont read little bits here and there - i read the whole bible, and leave it all in its original context, something you refuse to do [fiesty and other pretend christians] because that method of study would highlight your glaring ignorance, and ruin the bubble you have created for yourself in your delusion of salvation by the God you claim is wrong...

Then your studies are incomplete. I have also read it cover to cover, and I personally find your interpretation to be in extreme error.

I have therefore responded to Seig's threats by telling him in no uncertain terms which part of my anatomy he can kiss, and advised him to go ahead and ban me from this close-minded site...

Yes, very Christian of you.

I may be born again, but unlike you primadonas and hypocrits pretending to be christians, I am fallible, and fall well short of God's desire for us.. I can only ask and receive forgiveness from God for my rightious anger and words against the hypocrits on this site....

I truely feel sorry for you, and pity you for the narrow cell you have caged yourself within. It is not anywhere near what I found in your Bible, or what my other reborn friends did either. They seem happy, content, and hold a peace in their hearts you seem to so sadly missed out on.

I therfore "shake" the proverbial "dust from my sandals" as I leave this little internet clubhouse full of disbelieving vipers, poisonous ideas, and theologically corrupt wolves in sheeps clothing like fiesty...

The saying goes "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I know the character assassinations and the rest of the vileness that you contain will follow my departure, but rest assured, as fallible I am, God is just as True to His Word... for those of you who may really be interested in true christianity, please don't iassume that my disgust with this group of self-involved and arrogant "intellectuals" ... hahaha,, is reflective of Jesus.. this is my own fallen self speaking...

We could never do to your image or faith the damage your own actions and words have done. Your own hate soaked words show your heart and soul to be the black pits they truely are. If you are an example of what True Christianity is, then I thank my Gods I found them, before you found me.

Judgement Day is coming, whether you agree or not...

Saw the movie, nice special effects, especially the T-1000.

May God Save your lost souls...

Actually, SHE did...and was a great kisser if I remember my visitation correctly......but thats a story for the theology forum.


Now, fun time is over. Lets go back to the topic of this thread, please.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I just want to say a very heartfelt Thank You to Steve. :asian:

I cannot tell you what your kind words meant to me.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I just want to say a very heartfelt Thank You to Steve. :asian:

I cannot tell you what your kind words meant to me.

Over coffee, sometime, you could try.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Will do.

And, as a matter of curiosity, I was wondering what the regional differences are with wanting to change science textbooks, placing creationism in classrooms, etc. I must admit I did not expect Wisconsin or Georgia to be hotbeds of creationism activism, necessarily.

Why is it that some regions are finding this to be the case?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Will do.

And, as a matter of curiosity, I was wondering what the regional differences are with wanting to change science textbooks, placing creationism in classrooms, etc. I must admit I did not expect Wisconsin or Georgia to be hotbeds of creationism activism, necessarily.

Why is it that some regions are finding this to be the case?

I don't know, to be honest. While Georgia is in the south and a red state, you'd think one of the poorer states down there would take up the cause. Demographics may change now that more affluent blacks are returning to Georgia and Atlanta becomes more of an "ideaopolis."

Let me speculate....

Wisconsin is farm country...redder than one would think.

When one looks at the counties that went red versus those that went blue, it gives one the impression of a landslide for Bush, which is not the case. However, in blue states there were many counties that had the majority for Bush, even though the states overall went to Kerry. Most of those counties were rural counties.

So...farmers tend to vote Republican. Even Yankee farmers. Farmers tend towards fundamentalism. The liberals tend to congregate in the cities.


Regards,


Steve