Counter for "bear hug"

[Kung Fu Wang]

lol tell me that's a real martial arts move that actually works. If so then I'm going to find some Judo people while I still have my gut. lol.

It's real but it requires some serious training. I always ask my guys to let their opponent to get a "head lock" on them. They have to use their belly to bounce their opponent's body off the ground. It's not only used in defense. It's also used in offense.

If you are the receiver in this clip, you can feel that your body was not lifted up by the arms but "bounced up by your opponent's belly".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And you are giving up your back with that head lock.

Which is only safe if you have completely broken their structure. I’m rarely willing to bet I’ve done that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And you are giving up your back with that head lock.

Agree that to turn your back into your opponent can be a bad idea unless you can use under hook to lift your opponent's arm so that arm won't wrap around your waist. This is why to move in through an angle when you apply a hip throw is a good idea.

You don't have to turn your back into your opponent if you apply "head lock" when you are facing him. If you can make your opponent's spine to bend side way (break his structure), your face to face head lock can be more powerful than your back to face head lock.

 

[oftheherd1]

Thumbs. Eyeballs. Dig.

Very good!

Has anyone ever had used on them a double reverse sudo with the thumbs up and the strike into the middle of the armpit?

A cupped box, even to only one ear would likely loosen his grip as well, then magically, there is the other ear waiting for the same therapy.

But I still like the eye gouges as the better response. Not only should an opponent be expected to let go, but he won't be able to see well, if at all.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thumbs. Eyeballs. Dig.

Agree that striking will always work before a clinch has been "fully" established.

 

[drop bear]

Very good!

Has anyone ever had used on them a double reverse sudo with the thumbs up and the strike into the middle of the armpit?

A cupped box, even to only one ear would likely loosen his grip as well, then magically, there is the other ear waiting for the same therapy.

But I still like the eye gouges as the better response. Not only should an opponent be expected to let go, but he won't be able to see well, if at all.

Eye gouges are too slow. Unless you can anchor the head.

And you don't have to see. The guy will basically be on his back underneath you.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Eye gouges are too slow. Unless you can anchor the head.

And you don't have to see. The guy will basically be on his back underneath you.

Unless you're the sort of guy who can reach clear to the bottom of a Pringles can, you should be fine, given the situation in the photo posted.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unless you're the sort of guy who can reach clear to the bottom of a Pringles can, you should be fine, given the situation in the photo posted.

The only problem with eye gouges "it's a up close and personal act" that's going to be horrible. In the context of using it once the clinch is fully established, the person will need stomach for it so they can be fully committed to this act. Going in "half-assed" may give the person a chance to reposition their head in a way that the victim will no longer be able to attack. Trying to replace a person's eyeballs with fingers is a tough thing to do mentally and emotionally. Even if one's life is in danger they may not be able to commit violence in that manner. As a result they may not apply it in the manner that they need to apply it.

 

[oftheherd1]

The only problem with eye gouges "it's a up close and personal act" that's going to be horrible. In the context of using it once the clinch is fully established, the person will need stomach for it so they can be fully committed to this act. Going in "half-assed" may give the person a chance to reposition their head in a way that the victim will no longer be able to attack. Trying to replace a person's eyeballs with fingers is a tough thing to do mentally and emotionally. Even if one's life is in danger they may not be able to commit violence in that manner. As a result they may not apply it in the manner that they need to apply it.

That is true, although the more danger one feels oneself to be in the easier it should be. I used to tell my students the goal was to see how much eye matter they could get under their fingernails. Of course I got the expected oohs and aaaws, but it began to prepare them for what had to be done. And in my experience, it takes surprisingly little scratching of the eye surface to cause a lot of pain and a strong desire to close the injured eye(s).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

eye gouges ...

This is why some clinches is superior then the others.If you use clinch with "under hook" and "arm wrap" (or arm control), you won't give your opponent any free arms to "eye gouge" you.

Some wrestling sport totally ignore the "striking". Some wrestling sport still consider "striking" even if it's not allowed to be used. When wrestling became part of the MMA, this problem that people ignore striking during wrestling has been resolved.

IMO, for a good clinch, you should be able to control both of your opponent's arms. For example, if you use "under hook" on your opponent and move toward his side, his free arm won't be able to reach to your eyes. That "clinch" will be much safer for you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is why some clinches is superior then the others.If you use clinch with "under hook" and "arm wrap" (or arm control), you won't give your opponent any free arms to "eye gouge" you.

Some wrestling sport totally ignore the "striking". Some wrestling sport still consider "striking" even if it's not allowed to be used. When wrestling became part of the MMA, this problem that people ignore striking during wrestling has been resolved.

IMO, for a good clinch, you should be able to control both of your opponent's arms. For example, if you use "under hook" on your opponent and move toward his side, his free arm won't be able to reach to your eyes. That "clinch" will be much safer for you.

That makes sense. I didn't think about the context of how people clinch. Many of the fighting sports have rules that restrict dangerous strikes and counters and as a result maybe using a technique that works well in the ring, but doesn't address certain risks that exists in a self-defense situation.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Many of the fighting sports have rules that restrict dangerous strikes ...

Just by using "common sense", it's easy to tell that 3 > 2 > 1.

1. The following head lock give his opponent 2 free arms.

2. The following head lock only give his opponent 1 free arm.

3. The following head lock give his opponent no free arms.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Just by using "common sense", it's easy to tell that 3 > 2 > 1.

1. The following head lock give his opponent 2 free arms.

2. The following head lock only give his opponent 1 free arm.

3. The following head lock give his opponent no free arms.

It's all about compromise, John. The more hands you tie up, the less of something else you control.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's all about compromise, John. The more hands you tie up, the less of something else you control.

That's absolute true. You have 2 arms. Your opponent also has 2 arms. If you use your arms to control your opponent's arms, you will not give your opponent any free arm. The moment that you use your arm to control your opponent's

- waist (such as bear hug),
- leg (such as single leg), or
- head (such as head lock),

you will not be able to use that arm to control your opponent's arm.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's absolute true. You have 2 arms. Your opponent also has 2 arms. If you use your arms to control your opponent's arms, you will not give your opponent any free arm. The moment that you use your arm to control your opponent's

- waist (such as bear hug),
- leg (such as single leg), or
- head (such as head lock),

you will not be able to use that arm to control your opponent's arm.

And vice versa.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And vice versa.

This is why besides using your arms, you should also use your leg, hip, or head.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry could no longer resist.... my first thought when I read counter for bear hug was....

OK, I'll leave now

 

[Dirty Dog]

The only problem with eye gouges "it's a up close and personal act" that's going to be horrible. In the context of using it once the clinch is fully established, the person will need stomach for it so they can be fully committed to this act. Going in "half-assed" may give the person a chance to reposition their head in a way that the victim will no longer be able to attack. Trying to replace a person's eyeballs with fingers is a tough thing to do mentally and emotionally. Even if one's life is in danger they may not be able to commit violence in that manner. As a result they may not apply it in the manner that they need to apply it.

Sure. I didn't say it's the only response... I said it's A response.
And it goes both way. Even if I don't apply enough pressure to destroy the eyes, it's going to take a very determined attacker NOT to turn loose in an effort to protect their eyes.

 

[drop bear]

Unless you're the sort of guy who can reach clear to the bottom of a Pringles can, you should be fine, given the situation in the photo posted.

With what is going to be high elbows and possibly even bending your own back to reach?

So basically trading all of your defensive structure on the hope that eye gouge is going to get them to just let rather than put you on your back and get some real eyegouging done.

Like with gravity and body weight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And vice versa.

People have argued about whether wrestling single leg is better than Judo Osoto Gari (front cut), or the other way around.