Counter for "bear hug"

[Gerry Seymour]

Second thing I thought was “head and arm” throw. Doesn’t take much, of and strength when done right. It’s using the opponent’s momentum against them. It’s actually easier to learn than the lateral throw I linked to previously. The lateral throw is a better throw IMO in that it’s harder to counter and you end up in a better position at the end, but it takes a bit more skill.

That looks like one of the Judo hip throws. I forget which, but there's one that wraps the neck like that. I don't make the distinction - they are all just "hip throw" to me.

 

[JR 137]

That looks like one of the Judo hip throws. I forget which, but there's one that wraps the neck like that. I don't make the distinction - they are all just "hip throw" to me.

The Judo version I’ve seen makes heavy use of grabbing the sleeve and shoulder of the gi. The wrestling version relies on a headlock with the arm in there.

But yeah, the mechanics of the hips, leverage, etc. are pretty much identical when all is said and done. What you grab and way you grab is the only difference I see. I like the wrestling version better because if you’re grabbing clothes, it could just rip them and then you’ll be at a pretty in in-advantageous position - either the attacker behind you; on your feet or worse on your stomach. I’m sure a halfway competent judoka could easily adapt it on the fly to not be a concern though.

 

[JR 137]

I'd call that aiki, though not "pure aiki" (only because of the initial counter-push). That's one of the throws I was thinking of, though I didn't have a name for it. To me, it's one of the "techniques between the techniques".

You don’t have to push. That’s only to get the pushing reaction from the opponent if he isn’t pushing or isn’t pushing enough to get the momentum you want. I’ve thrown it with minimal push-back from my opponent, but I was muscling it and it wasn’t as pretty If an actual attacker has that hold on you, they’re either going to be pushing or at least leaning to hold their ground. The only way they won’t is if they’re trying to just lock you up, hold you where you are, etc.; basically a non-aggressive hold, if that makes sense.

Using my extremely scientific data analysis, I’d say they’d push more than enough 99% of the time Maybe not driving you back into a wall, but definitely pushing more than enough.

Alternatively you can pull your opponent, but that’s not optimal.

Damn iPhone autocorrect changed “lock you up” to “lick you up.” Quite different visuals there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The Judo version I’ve seen makes heavy use of grabbing the sleeve and shoulder of the gi. The wrestling version relies on a headlock with the arm in there.

But yeah, the mechanics of the hips, leverage, etc. are pretty much identical when all is said and done. What you grab and way you grab is the only difference I see. I like the wrestling version better because if you’re grabbing clothes, it could just rip them and then you’ll be at a pretty in in-advantageous position - either the attacker behind you; on your feet or worse on your stomach. I’m sure a halfway competent judoka could easily adapt it on the fly to not be a concern though.

I teach most of the Judo-style throws I know with wrestling/no-gi grips for that reason. I rarely use the Judo grips.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You don’t have to push. That’s only to get the pushing reaction from the opponent if he isn’t pushing or isn’t pushing enough to get the momentum you want. I’ve thrown it with minimal push-back from my opponent, but I was muscling it and it wasn’t as pretty If an actual attacker has that hold on you, they’re either going to be pushing or at least leaning to hold their ground. The only way they won’t is if they’re trying to just lock you up, hold you where you are, etc.; basically a non-aggressive hold, if that makes sense.

Using my extremely scientific data analysis, I’d say they’d push more than enough 99% of the time Maybe not driving you back into a wall, but definitely pushing more than enough.

Alternatively you can pull your opponent, but that’s not optimal.

Agreed. To me, that’s why aiki techniques should also be taught in their less-aiki variations. Most have ten, and they range from the push in the video to the muscling you mention. All are useful, and make the aiki versions more viable (since you can use the other variations if the aiki isn’t available).

Damn iPhone autocorrect changed “lock you up” to “lick you up.” Quite different visuals there.

As my nephew would say, “That’s an entirely different evening. “

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The human's

- "bear hug" won't work on bear.
- "head lock" won't work on giraffe.
- "double legs" won't work on chicken.
- ...

Regardless, not many humans can get their arms around me as shown in your original photo. I'm too big around. Sorry, it's a fact.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That looks like one of the Judo hip throws..

In that bear hug clinch, both persons can apply "hip throw" to the other. As long as one person moves back his hip, the other can move his hip in. I don't like to do hip throw while my opponent's arms are sounding my waist. But if I use under hook, I can lift my opponent's arm away from my waist.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In that bear hug clinch, both persons can apply "hip throw" to the other. As long as one person moves back his hip, the other can move his hip in. I don't like to do hip throw while my opponent's arms are arounding my waist.

I don’t, either...but it’s better than what the other guy has in mind.

 

[Buka]

There's a difference between the OP and the examples in post #7. In the latter, the opponent doesn't clasp hands, never really gets the hug on. That changes things, gives somewhat more of an advantage to the hugee than the hugger. [somewhat]

And there's something else to consider. We're all thinking of it from a training, tactical standpoint, the old standing grapple. Some guys bear hug by either picking you up and squeezing the ever loving crap out of you, which at times is really nasty as usually the only people who try this are extremely strong people - it's why they bear hug. Or trying to bend you backwards - and squeezing the ever loving crap out of you, again, real strong guys.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t, either...but it’s better than what the other guy has in mind.

The logic is if your opponent controls your waist, his head is open. I think head lock against bear hug is more reasonable.

There are many things wrong in his head lock (1.00 - 1.04).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There's a difference between the OP and the examples in post #7. In the latter, the opponent doesn't clasp hands, never really gets the hug on. That changes things, ...

Agree!

When a punch land on your face, everything is too later. When a bear hug is closed, it may also be too late if your opponent has a pair of strong arms. Through Chinese history, someone was killed by "bear hug" before.

Of course in MA, everything is "relative" and not "absolute". One time an Iranian wrestler ambushed me from behind with a bear hug. He squeezed his bear hug on me so hard that broke his own ribs.

 

[Buka]

One time an Iranian wrestler ambushed me from behind with a bear hug. He squeezed his bear hug on me so hard that broke his own ribs.

I hear ya, brother. I hate getting bear hugged from behind, especially getting picked up.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The logic is if your opponent controls your waist, his head is open. I think head lock against bear hug is more reasonable.

There are many things wrong in his head lock (1.00 - 1.04).

The headlock you often describe wouldn’t be available once both his arms are around you. If his head is free (not tucked tight), strikes and other attacks to the head may be available. If I catch him before he sinks it in (still space between his upper body and mine), I’ll probably go for a throw, since I can likely break his structure faster than he can break mine.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I hear ya, brother. I hate getting bear hugged from behind, especially getting picked up.

Yeah, if they pick you up from behind, it’s mostly time to minimize the damage.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The headlock you often describe wouldn’t be available once both his arms are around you. If his head is free (not tucked tight), strikes and other attacks to the head may be available. If I catch him before he sinks it in (still space between his upper body and mine), I’ll probably go for a throw, since I can likely break his structure faster than he can break mine.

When your opponent puts arms around your waist, his gravity center is lower than yours. He can lift you up. But you can "crash" him down too. The advantage to use head lock to counter bear hug is when your opponent works on your waist, you work on his head/neck. Your opponent has to deal with your "spine". You only have to deal with his "neck". If you can move his head, his body will follow.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When your opponent puts arms around your waist, his gravity center is lower than yours. He can lift you up. But you can "crash" him down too. The advantage to use head lock to counter bear hug is when your opponent works on your waist, you work on his head/neck. Your opponent has to deal with your "spine". You only have to deal with his "neck". If you can move his head, his body will follow.

In that picture, it’s a side bear hug. From the front, there’s less room to get the hip in, unless you turn before they close the space. From that picture, there’s a Judo hip throw (the one I mentioned earlier that uses the neck/scarf). I think you once posted a throw from that head lock that was the same basic principle.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I hear ya, brother. I hate getting bear hugged from behind, especially getting picked up.

This is why to be able to twist your leg on your opponent's leg so you can glue your body on your opponent's body is a must skill to have in wrestling. The farther that you can extend out your free leg, the harder it will be for your opponent to pick you up.

The issue is we don't develop our "leg twisting" power through our daily activity. To develop it from ground zero can be a painful training process.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In that picture, it’s a side bear hug. From the front, there’s less room to get the hip in, unless you turn before they close the space. From that picture, there’s a Judo hip throw (the one I mentioned earlier that uses the neck/scarf). I think you once posted a throw from that head lock that was the same basic principle.

Of course when your opponent's belly touches on your belly, you can't turn any more. Since most people will move their hip back, this will give you a chance to move your hip in.

This is also why you want to develop your "belly bouncing". When your opponent's belly (or hip) touches on your belly, you bounce his belly (or hip) away. If you are good at this, hip throw will never work on you.

Sometime I have a question to myself. Should I spend all my life to train "hip throw", or should I spend all my life to train "belly bouncing"?

 

[JowGaWolf]

There's a difference between the OP and the examples in post #7. In the latter, the opponent doesn't clasp hands, never really gets the hug on. That changes things, gives somewhat more of an advantage to the hugee than the hugger. [somewhat]

And there's something else to consider. We're all thinking of it from a training, tactical standpoint, the old standing grapple. Some guys bear hug by either picking you up and squeezing the ever loving crap out of you, which at times is really nasty as usually the only people who try this are extremely strong people - it's why they bear hug. Or trying to bend you backwards - and squeezing the ever loving crap out of you, again, real strong guys.

This is the perspective I was viewing it from. Someone who has it lock vs someone who hasn't been able to lock the grip yet. At that point it basically becomes an issue of trying to prevent what comes next as soon as possible.

Of course when your opponent's belly touches on your belly, you can't turn any more. Since most people will move their hip back, this will give you a chance to move your hip in.

This is also why you want to develop your "belly bouncing". When your opponent's belly (or hip) touches on your belly, you bounce his belly (or hip) away. If you are good at this, hip throw will never work on you.

Sometime I have a question to myself. Should I spend all my life to train "hip throw", or should I spend all my life to train "belly bouncing"?

lol tell me that's a real martial arts move that actually works. If so then I'm going to find some Judo people while I still have my gut. lol.

 

[drop bear]

The headlock you often describe wouldn’t be available once both his arms are around you. If his head is free (not tucked tight), strikes and other attacks to the head may be available. If I catch him before he sinks it in (still space between his upper body and mine), I’ll probably go for a throw, since I can likely break his structure faster than he can break mine.

And you are giving up your back with that head lock.