Corrupted Poomsae

[puunui]

WTF poomsae competition is scored as 40% technical, 60% presentation.

And I understand it could be weighted even higher towards presentation in the future.

 

[puunui]

Really? 2 poomsae IR's just told me that they give 2 scores up to 5 adding them for a max score of 10. Wouldn't that make it 50/50?

I wonder who is to blame for the above erroneous viewpoint, a poor, improperly educated instructor or an absentee parent organization.

 

[puunui]

My view is from the ITF / Chang Hon perspective, and it's exactly the same.

AFAIAC just be honest about not knowing or not teaching the standard. Don't tell me how you tweak stuff, changed stuff, like to be creative etc. unless you first can show or tell me what the standard is. You can't claim to have tweaked something or are being creative with it if you don't know what the heck it was in the first place.

Maybe, just maybe ... the seniors had reasons for doing things a certain way. I have learned to do many things a certain way without understanding why initialy, and later either had the reasons explained, or reached an understanding. (OK, so I am still waiting for some stuff.)

good post.

 

[mastercole]

.
The standard is the set way our kkw gms practice, teach and perform them. They put it down on paper and dvd. Any variations are the blame of poor, unproperly educated instructors and an absentee parent org(kukkiwon).

The Kukkiwon makes itself completely available to everyone, I don't understand what you mean by absent? You for example live in California. I believe California has had the greatest number of official Kukkiwon conducted educational events of any state, held by a variety of Kukkiwon related organizations, and California has the greatest number of Kukkiwon educated Taekwondo instructors of any state, and the greatest number of Kukkiwon Dan holders of any state in the USA. The first ever Hanmadang Kukkiwon Referee seminar was held in California. The first ever Kukkiwon World Hanmadang outside of Korea was held in California. I believe the Kukkiwon just conducted a Poomsae refresher course and Dan testing in California this month?

But I live in Ohio and Kukkiwon has never held any type of educational event in my state, a state where the USTU was founded. However, I have the opportunity to attend official Kukkiwon conducted events around the USA, every year. They also publish an excellent textbook, DVD set and free web access to their Media Learning Center. If I like, I can even fly to Korea, bring my students and train at the Kukkiwon itself. Living here in Ohio, a place where Kukkiwon has never conducted any kind of event, I can access to everything my students need to stay up to date on Kukkiwon standards. I just received an e-mail from Kukkiwon telling me about an event they are holding in Las Vegas in a few months. I have students attending the instructors course in Korea this July. I don't feel Kukkiwon is absent at all.

 

[mastercole]

Originally Posted by Earl Weiss
My view is from the ITF / Chang Hon perspective, and it's exactly the same.

AFAIAC just be honest about not knowing or not teaching the standard. Don't tell me how you tweak stuff, changed stuff, like to be creative etc. unless you first can show or tell me what the standard is. You can't claim to have tweaked something or are being creative with it if you don't know what the heck it was in the first place.

Maybe, just maybe ... the seniors had reasons for doing things a certain way. I have learned to do many things a certain way without understanding why initialy, and later either had the reasons explained, or reached an understanding. (OK, so I am still waiting for some stuff.)

good post.

I believe Master Weiss just clearly stated the crux of the matter, more clearly that I ever could have. I will have to borrow it for future comment

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We do a few forms differently to the original, but we are told that the GM changed them and we are shown (if we ask) what the original form looked like and where all the changes are.

 

[mastercole]

We do a few forms differently to the original, but we are told that the GM changed them and we are shown (if we ask) what the original form looked like and where all the changes are.

Did you ever ask?

 

[puunui]

The Kukkiwon makes itself completely available to everyone

The Kukkiwon is there for everyone who wish to seek it out. If the Kukkiwon is absent from your taekwondo experience, that is because of the student's choice, not the Kukkiwon's. I asked one of my instructors what the difference was between students in Korea, and students outside of Korea. His response was: In Korea, the students ask 'please teach me'. Outside of Korea, the students expect the teacher to ask "Please learn from me."

 

[msmitht]

I wonder who is to blame for the above erroneous viewpoint, a poor, improperly educated instructor or an absentee parent organization.

I must have misunderstood what I was told. It was a late night conversation @ the us open in vegas. It has been a while since I looked up the competition poomsae rules. Ty for the correction msutkd and atc.
Puunui: your tone and comment felt rude and uncalled for. The original reference was towards those who passed on corrupted poomsae without either knowing/caring and the kkw not checking up on what the instructors they certify are teaching. I have been to many kkw seminars and courses to make sure that I am teaching the correct standard.
Done with you sir. Blocked.

 

[mastercole]

I must have misunderstood what I was told. Ty for the correction msutkd and atc. Puunui that was rude and uncalled for. Done with you.

Calling ones seniors who make great efforts to be as available as possible to 200 nations of the world (80 million practitioners) "absentee", and who are making the biggest splash in your own backyard might be considered rude if you think about it.

 

[msmitht]

Calling ones seniors who make great efforts to be as available as possible to 200 nations of the world (80 million practitioners) "absentee", and who are making the biggest splash in your own backyard might be considered rude if you think about it.

I was editing as you replied. Does it make more sense now? Yes, the kkw is NOW holding seminars and I have been to most of the ones in ca. I was referring to the past

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Did you ever ask?

Only regarding koryo, where a couple of moves in the first part are changed. The first three moves, the knife hand, the punch and the inside block. He wanted them all in a different stance and changed it to horse stance, front stance, back stance because thats the way his original teacher would teach it to emphasize quick stance changes. There was a lot more to it but thats the condensed version. Ive actually seen a few other clubs do it that way also. I will see if I can find something on youtube to demonstrate what I mean.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

this is exactly how we do it, I think I know the club, they are australian also. Maybe its an aussie thing

 

[mastercole]

I was editing as you replied. Does it make more sense now? Yes, the kkw is NOW holding seminars and I have been to most of the ones in ca. I was referring to the past

I believe it was in the late 1980's I started writing a yearly letter to the Kukkiwon "Leadership Academy" asking them to please consider opening a Taekwondo instructors course for foreigners. The reason I did so is because my Sabumnim had a Kukkiwon Instructors certificate in his office and a photo of his graduating class. I ask him about that course and after he described it to me, he said that KTA had just passed the responsibility of that course over to Kukkiwon right before he took the course, and they told him in the course that once they feel they improved the course, they would make a course for international instructors.

So I started sending letters. I got back a reply telling they were in the planning stage, they also sent me a textbook, videos, WTF magazines, Kukkiwon newsletters, etc and told me that any time I wanted to come train at the Academy, I could make a special arrangement, or, I could fly an academy instructor to my dojang for up to a month. In 1998 they sent me a letter and called me on the phone telling me the 1st Foreign Instructors Qualification Training Course was scheduled for July of that years, and how many American Taekwondo masters can I bring to the course. I asked how many should I bring, they said "ten", so I brought ten. There were just a couple of other American's who showed up alone. We became the first group of American born masters to graduate the Kukkiwon Instructor course. All together there were 98 participants from 38 nations I believe. I wrote a rough article about my experience at that course and put it out on puuniu's e-newsletter and a few internet sites. I was amazed at how many people from the USA and around the world contacted me asking for information and advise on attending the course. Since then the Kukkiwon has expanded the courses they offer and has been conducting courses around the world in over 100 nations so far.

I was very thankful for all their helpful and kind assistance. They always told me on the phone to keep in touch and not loose touch, even today. I never felt they were absent. I felt they were a new and growing organization that had an enormous burden to try and keep up with the firestorm spreading of Taekwondo fueled by the WTF.

Here is a picture of the 1st group of Americans to graduate that course.

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Below is the whole class photo lined up during training.

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[andyjeffries]

I wrote a rough article about my experience at that course and put it out on puuniu's e-newsletter and a few internet sites.

If you still have that content could you kindly post it or a link to it on here.

I have a document that Miles sent me a few years ago about his experience on the course, but I'm always interested in reading more about it.

Aiming to go in July 2013.

 

[mastercole]

If you still have that content could you kindly post it or a link to it on here.

I have a document that Miles sent me a few years ago about his experience on the course, but I'm always interested in reading more about it.

Aiming to go in July 2013.

I'll see you there in 2013. That paper was like 5 computers ago. I think it's gone. I would have to clean it up if I found it, it was written in one sitting and very rough.

 

[andyjeffries]

I'll see you there in 2013.

Awesome! My Grandmaster will be there too (GM Pan Sim Woon for those of you that know him, I know Miles met him - they guy who tore his Achilles at the FIC).

That paper was like 5 computers ago. I think it's gone. I would have to clean it up if I found it, it was written in one sitting and very rough.

Ah OK. I'll have a look through my old email newsletters to see if I can find it (but you wrote a LOT on there so it might be a needle in a haystack).

 

[Miles]

.......There were just a couple of other American's who showed up alone. We became the first group of American born masters to graduate the Kukkiwon Instructor course. All together there were 98 participants from 38 nations I believe. I wrote a rough article about my experience at that course and put it out on puuniu's e-newsletter and a few internet sites. I was amazed at how many people from the USA and around the world contacted me asking for information and advise on attending the course. Since then the Kukkiwon has expanded the courses they offer and has been conducting courses around the world in over 100 nations so far.

I was very thankful for all their helpful and kind assistance.

I remember reading of your wonderful experience as well as others who subsequently took the course on the TKD.net. I feel blessed to have had the wonderful opportunity to attend it in Korea (and again in Chicago where I met some members of Martialtalk). Thank you for your lobbying efforts!

 

[puunui]

I'll see you there in 2013.

2013 is the last time the Instructor Course will be held in the Kukkiwon, before the Academy moves to the Taekwondo Park (now known as the Taekwondowon).

 

[andyjeffries]

2013 is the last time the Instructor Course will be held in the Kukkiwon, before the Academy moves to the Taekwondo Park (now known as the Taekwondowon).

My Grandmaster was hoping it would be the first time it would be held at the Taekwondowon (as he's been to two previous FIC at the Kukkiwon). Personally I was hoping for a Kukkiwon one (as I've never been and will have opportunities in the future to attend them at Taekwondowon as I progress). Looks like I'll be the lucky one ;-)