CONTROVERSY: Free Martial Arts!!!

[Shadowstar MMA]

Ah ok... have you included any CLF in your system? Seed hands? Weapons? Jongs?

Not sure what "seed hands" is, so, no.
weapons in Shadowstar: short staff, staff, and knife.
Not sure what "jongs" are either.
I'm sorry for sounding ignorant. . .

 

[clfsean]

Not sure what "seed hands" is, so, no.
weapons in Shadowstar: short staff, staff, and knife.
Not sure what "jongs" are either.
I'm sorry for sounding ignorant. . .

It's cool... just trying to see how you would blend CLF with the other 2 & trying to get an idea of what you were exposed to from your training in Phoenix.

Is he still in Phoenix? Was he in Phoenix proper or one of the burbs? I've got family there & try to get that way at least once a year. It'd be nice to see somebody from the same part of the tree there.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

1) Dude, personally, I really don't care if you charge or if you dont charge. I, as well as a few others, are simply saying that just because someone charges, does not make them any less of a teacher. That is the impression that I am getting from you.

2) Ok.

no,
I am not saying that those who charge are wrong.
I am not saying it makes them less of a teacher.
I am not trying to give the impression that I think less of those who charge. I apologize if I am.

I am saying that some people charge too much. I'm sorry, but not everyone can afford it.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

It's cool... just trying to see how you would blend CLF with the other 2 & trying to get an idea of what you were exposed to from your training in Phoenix.

Is he still in Phoenix? Was he in Phoenix proper or one of the burbs? I've got family there & try to get that way at least once a year. It'd be nice to see somebody from the same part of the tree there.

Don't think so. I think he joined the Air Force. This was in Glendale, just outside of Phoenix. I haven't spoken to him in years.

 

[clfsean]

Don't think so. I think he joined the Air Force. This was in Glendale, just outside of Phoenix. I haven't spoken to him in years.

Ah ok... how long did you get to train with him?

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

To further expand on the question that Terry had asked....what is your program like? What specifically are you teaching, besides awareness?

I hope this answers your question, or at least comes close. This is actually beginning to feel like I'm on trial here. . .

Shadowstar students study:
"W.A.S.T.E." Whole body, Awareness, Safety, Technique, and Efficiency.
8 Basics: Stances, Blocks, Punches, Kicks, Takedowns, Holds, Forms, and Groundwork.
During a "Story Circle", I give a short 5 to 10 minute lecture halfway through the class. (this also allows them to take a break.)
Mostly, it's Forms, working techniques, and what you would call "sparring." It's not sparring. It's action-reaction drills.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Ah ok... how long did you get to train with him?

One year.

 

[clfsean]

One year.

Must've been a while ago?

 

[MJS]

no,
I am not saying that those who charge are wrong.
I am not saying it makes them less of a teacher.
I am not trying to give the impression that I think less of those who charge. I apologize if I am.

I am saying that some people charge too much. I'm sorry, but not everyone can afford it.

Well, I agree, that some teachers will charge more than others. Alot of the time it depends on who the teacher is, what the art is, how available the art is, etc. For example...the guy I do BJJ with charges $60/hr, but I'd be willing to bet that if I were to head to Cali. and take a 1hr lesson with Rickson Gracie, I'd be paying alot more than that. Again, there is an obvious difference between the two.

I think its been covered already, but I'll say it again. If I were to open a school, where the rent is say $900 a month, I'm going to need more than that to cover the rent, the bills, etc. Even if I wasnt making anything, I'd still need to charge to cover the bills.

Of course, unless there was an understanding, I'd also think that anyone teaching out of their home, would want to look into insurance in the event of injury. Do you have anything like that?

I hope this answers your question, or at least comes close. This is actually beginning to feel like I'm on trial here. . .

Shadowstar students study:
"W.A.S.T.E." Whole body, Awareness, Safety, Technique, and Efficiency.
8 Basics: Stances, Blocks, Punches, Kicks, Takedowns, Holds, Forms, and Groundwork.
During a "Story Circle", I give a short 5 to 10 minute lecture halfway through the class. (this also allows them to take a break.)
Mostly, it's Forms, working techniques, and what you would call "sparring." It's not sparring. It's action-reaction drills.

Yes, thank you. As for feeling like you're on trial...let me explain....there have been many people who've come on here, selling a new and improved system. I can point you to those threads if you'd like. I havent seen anything 'new' yet, and I've been training for some time now, but what I have seen, is difference in applications. So, are the RBSD guys teaching anything new? IMO, no, but what they are doing is taking old school techs. and making them more up to date. They can say they are doing something new until they're blue in the face, but I won't buy it.

People will ask questions, its a natural thing to do. If the person answers them or not is out of my control, however, if someone is elusive in what they say, that makes a flag go up.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Must've been a while ago?

uh, yeah. 1990-1991

 

[Tez3]

my point exactly. There are olympicmartial arts, and non-olympic.
In Shadowstar's case, there's competitive MMA and there's mixed martial arts.

As far as my background, I listed 3 schools earlier. I am also a former U.S.M.C. police officer. Most, if not all of what I teach is for the street.

As far as the Black/Purple sash in concerned: A black sash means that the student has under gone training and has become proficient in the Basic 8's. The site still needs more work, so not everything has a pic. Once a student has become a black sash, he/she helps teach as well as has the option to further thier training in more traditional methods. In Shadowstar we call the "Animal training". I have completed the Animal training.
And just to answer another question that may be posted by someone. . .
I developed Shadowstar, the 8-point system it uses, and the rank structure. This was done not only by me, but by my students as well. (Of course not the children. That would be like asking Barney to teach driving,)

That's not really the case though, there's MMA in which some compete and some don't but all train the same, there's no weapons, no gradings, no rank structure and it's for competition even if you chose not to compete because the techniques in MMA are designed to be used with the rules not for the street. Of course and we've been here many times before, MMA can be adapted for the street but then it turns into street self defence not MMA.
What you are doing sounds very good but it's still not MMA. Sorry but it's not. I know I sound somewhat pendantic about this but if you said it was TKD you'd have TKDists saying the same thing, as would the Judoka if you said it was Judo. You've taken my art and made it sound as if it's something else. And MMA is an art not just anything people want to throw together. I'm astounded that you have taken your arts, perfectly good ones, denied them and called your school by my arts name.

 

[terryl965]

Shadowstar I am going to try and be nice here about this so if it comes across the wrong way just take it for what it is worth. I charge because I have found out people believe for it to be of value it has to have something to it. You dod not charge for one reason that I can see and that is this you have no answer to any question, you do not know simple language, techniques or interpitation of anything remotely toward a martial art. You trained with someone for a year and you are able to teach the concept no way, you are not for real and that is why it is free, those are the only clients you could ever get. Spend some time learning a syaytem and be able to teach the whole system. Now like you said you feel you are being attacked but believe me if this was someone else the same conclusion would came from it. Enjoy the land of illusion you are teaching those poor students and yes you should be classified as a McDojo, fastfood martial arts.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Well, I agree, that some teachers will charge more than others. Alot of the time it depends on who the teacher is, what the art is, how available the art is, etc. For example...the guy I do BJJ with charges $60/hr, but I'd be willing to bet that if I were to head to Cali. and take a 1hr lesson with Rickson Gracie, I'd be paying alot more than that. Again, there is an obvious difference between the two.

I think its been covered already, but I'll say it again. If I were to open a school, where the rent is say $900 a month, I'm going to need more than that to cover the rent, the bills, etc. Even if I wasnt making anything, I'd still need to charge to cover the bills.

Of course, unless there was an understanding, I'd also think that anyone teaching out of their home, would want to look into insurance in the event of injury. Do you have anything like that?



Yes, thank you. As for feeling like you're on trial...let me explain....there have been many people who've come on here, selling a new and improved system. I can point you to those threads if you'd like. I havent seen anything 'new' yet, and I've been training for some time now, but what I have seen, is difference in applications. So, are the RBSD guys teaching anything new? IMO, no, but what they are doing is taking old school techs. and making them more up to date. They can say they are doing something new until they're blue in the face, but I won't buy it.

People will ask questions, its a natural thing to do. If the person answers them or not is out of my control, however, if someone is elusive in what they say, that makes a flag go up.

ok, thanks for clearing it up a little. I'm not trying to sell anything, nor am I trying to impose Shadowstar on anyone. This actually started out with me posting my opinion on what I now know are "McDojo's".
Sorry.
Yes, I have proper paperwork for liability. My wife is a registered paralegal. She corrected me on that very quickly. . .

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

That's not really the case though, there's MMA in which some compete and some don't but all train the same, there's no weapons, no gradings, no rank structure and it's for competition even if you chose not to compete because the techniques in MMA are designed to be used with the rules not for the street. Of course and we've been here many times before, MMA can be adapted for the street but then it turns into street self defence not MMA.
What you are doing sounds very good but it's still not MMA. Sorry but it's not. I know I sound somewhat pendantic about this but if you said it was TKD you'd have TKDists saying the same thing, as would the Judoka if you said it was Judo. You've taken my art and made it sound as if it's something else. And MMA is an art not just anything people want to throw together. I'm astounded that you have taken your arts, perfectly good ones, denied them and called your school by my arts name.

ok, watch it.
For starters, I give appropriate reverance to the arts that I have taken.
Second, who are you to call MMA yours?

 

[Tez3]

ok, watch it.
For starters, I give appropriate reverance to the arts that I have taken.
Second, who are you to call MMA yours?

My dear boy, it's my style why wouldn't I call it mine? TSD is also my style.
I promote,train, coach, teach, corner and referee MMA...professionally, so damn right I'll call it my style.
Ah I forgot if you get paid you are a fraud, right?

 

[jks9199]

Shadowstar is a mixed martial art. For those of you who can look past the wiki definition of “MMA”, I mean exactly what the name says. It’s a mixed martial art. Not one style is taught in my school. I don’t teach an ancient fighting system laid down in stone by my predecessors. I teach a martial art that is practical and made up of many different types of fighting. Judo. Kung Fu. Karate. Kickboxing. San Soo. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, on this side of the looking glass, we can't make words mean what we want them to. We're kind of stuck with them meaning what most folks take them as meaning. You're using a term with an accepted meaning in a way that's not in concert with the accepted definition; that's just a recipe for confusion. Why not simply go with "Shadowstar Martial Arts" and describe it as an eclectic mix of the martial arts you've studied, influenced by your personal experience when someone needs to know more?

I was hoping to find a site that I could converse with other martial artists and owner/instructors.
Instead I found myself badgered and ridiculed for the attempt. The only logical explanation I have for this is that the thought of Shadowstar MMA scares people. I’m not sure why, we’re not out to attack anyone. Not even in the ring. However, Shadowstar is something a lot of people don’t understand, and that’s ok. It’s ok not to understand. I’ve been teaching since 1992, been under martial arts instruction since 1984, and I still don’t understand.

You're getting awfully defensive here... and if you think you've been badgered here, you might try posting on a forum that is blocked on this site. The name of that forum comes from a common term for questionable martial arts...

My backgrounds, my school, what I name my school, even the age of my students were attacked. In one thread it was insinuated that I was suspect of being a child molester.
This angers me greatly. Even though every parent, teacher, and student should be aware of these things, to come out and all but accuse someone of this for no more reason than the fact that I don’t charge for classes is absurd and very insulting.

If you feel that anyone has posted rudely, or insultingly, or is trying to fraudbust -- there's a little triangle emblem at the top right of the post. It's the Report to Moderator button. I encourage you to use it if you feel that someone has broken the rules. FYI -- policy here is that staff involved in a thread do not moderate it, so nobody commenting in this thread (like me) would be moderating it.

For those of you who are true martial artists: Keep up the good work. I hope to cross paths with you and we can share and learn from each other. Always remember that martial arts is not a system of fighting. It’s a way of life.

To answer one final question, “Why not just teach Kung Fu San Soo?

Or any of the other styles for free for that matter and not use the MMA label?”

I don’t teach what I was taught for a couple of reasons. Teaching of one particular style limits what is taught through tradition, curriculum, and rules. (example: a tournament martial arts is not going to teach grabbing the groin or thumbing an eye.)

Simply put, I disagree with some of the rules.

To finish up, I mean no disrespect to anyone that has shown me and my school welcome. I very much enjoyed reading (some) of your posts and answering your questions. Thank you.

All of the styles you've listed as having trained in have both a sporting and a combative side; you're welcome to mix and match to make your own thing -- but I have to raise the question I do anytime this sort of thing comes up. What makes YOUR experience outweigh the lessons passed down for many years through a tradition? There was a recent thread about whether you need a a martial arts teacher to learn; it was an interesting discussion.

 

[jks9199]

I studied with Mr. Schaeffer. I don't know who his instructor was.

Not to change the subject or anything, but my "belt" just changed from white to yellow. . . explain please?

Your MartialTalk belt rank is simply an indicator of how many posts you've made. It's just a little more fun than "Member with x posts" to call them belt ranks. A military site might start you as a private, and bump you up to general in the same manner. If you check the support forum, there's a stickied thread on this, I believe.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Shadowstar I am going to try and be nice here about this so if it comes across the wrong way just take it for what it is worth. I charge because I have found out people believe for it to be of value it has to have something to it. You dod not charge for one reason that I can see and that is this you have no answer to any question, you do not know simple language, techniques or interpitation of anything remotely toward a martial art. You trained with someone for a year and you are able to teach the concept no way, you are not for real and that is why it is free, those are the only clients you could ever get. Spend some time learning a syaytem and be able to teach the whole system. Now like you said you feel you are being attacked but believe me if this was someone else the same conclusion would came from it. Enjoy the land of illusion you are teaching those poor students and yes you should be classified as a McDojo, fastfood martial arts.

lol, feel better now?

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

My dear boy, it's my style why wouldn't I call it mine? TSD is also my style.
I promote,train, coach, teach, corner and referee MMA...professionally, so damn right I'll call it my style.
Ah I forgot if you get paid you are a fraud, right?

forget it. I've tried to explain that to you, and it didn't stick.
Obviously, you are so close-minded you can't see past yourself and your own "self-awesomeness."

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Unfortunately, on this side of the looking glass, we can't make words mean what we want them to. We're kind of stuck with them meaning what most folks take them as meaning. You're using a term with an accepted meaning in a way that's not in concert with the accepted definition; that's just a recipe for confusion. Why not simply go with "Shadowstar Martial Arts" and describe it as an eclectic mix of the martial arts you've studied, influenced by your personal experience when someone needs to know more?
You're getting awfully defensive here... and if you think you've been badgered here, you might try posting on a forum that is blocked on this site. The name of that forum comes from a common term for questionable martial arts...
If you feel that anyone has posted rudely, or insultingly, or is trying to fraudbust -- there's a little triangle emblem at the top right of the post. It's the Report to Moderator button. I encourage you to use it if you feel that someone has broken the rules. FYI -- policy here is that staff involved in a thread do not moderate it, so nobody commenting in this thread (like me) would be moderating it.
All of the styles you've listed as having trained in have both a sporting and a combative side; you're welcome to mix and match to make your own thing -- but I have to raise the question I do anytime this sort of thing comes up. What makes YOUR experience outweigh the lessons passed down for many years through a tradition? There was a recent thread about whether you need a a martial arts teacher to learn; it was an interesting discussion.

You asked: Why not simply go with "Shadowstar Martial Arts" and describe it as an eclectic mix of the martial arts you've studied, influenced by your personal experience when someone needs to know more?
A: I normally do. Unfortunately, when i purchased the domain, "shadowstarma" was taken.

You asked: What makes YOUR experience outweigh the lessons passed down for many years through a tradition?
A: I never said it did. I very much honor tradition. It's just not how I teach Shadowstar.