Congresswoman Giffords Shot in Tucson

[ballen0351]

I do think this further highlights the need to not use over-the-top language when it comes to our political debates. Its okay to disagree, but when you paint the other guy as an enemy of the US because they disagree with your view it can lead to bad things. There are crazy people out there who can't tell when a person is exagerating for effect. Words have a lot of power and we need to keep that in mind in our political discourse.

I’m not sure it would matter crazy people are just crazy. Today this guys upset about the govt. The next Guy could be upset because PopTarts put too many sprinkles on his strawberry poptart.
We are mostly logical people here and to try to put a logical reason on a crazy act won’t work.

 

[crushing]

Giffords is a conservative "Blue Dog" Democrat and on her website she calls the federal debt "the single biggest threat to our economy and national security." She also has been a key player in trying to improve border security and reduce illegal immigration, which some pundits have tried to cast as being anti-immigration and even racist.

If the shooting was indeed politically motivated, it may be difficult to tell from which ideological background the shooter actually came from. It appears the mainstream media has pretty much decided Palin mindcontrolled him to do it somehow. People, especially Palin haters, will want to believe it. Heck, most people still think McVeigh was a Christian and a member of a militia based media portrayals.

 

[dowan50]

I’m not sure it would matter crazy people are just crazy. Today this guys upset about the govt. The next Guy could be upset because PopTarts put too many sprinkles on his strawberry poptart.
We are mostly logical people here and to try to put a logical reason on a crazy act won’t work.

I am not sure that is the case at all anymore our country has become completely polarized and the Conservative right inflamed by its media personalities that would do anything for a buck will stop at nothing to increase ratings and income. Look at health care debate. our voting base has become uneducated and lead by Faciast rhetoric telling them to hate the people that are the problem. Yes nuts are nuts but a good portion of our population is becoming nuts instead of working together and all of us doing the hard work to fix it it is easier to point and call names lie about the facts and a give me mine at the cost of others.

Whats even funnier is the blind almost extinct middle class fighting for the rights of the rich thinking they have a chance of becoming one. Word do matter it was words that put Hitler in power history repeats itself. What is scary is that even conservative commentators are using terms like Robber Barons and things are not going to change for the better with out people loosing everything and violent confrontations on a national basis. I hate that to be called conservative is morally correct but to be a democrat is to called a liberal who is attached with every low moral and negative word phrasing you can think of.

Our politicians have proved there are not democrats or republicans only greedy people have and have not and the sane people who are the majority but split are going to have to work together before we all circle the drain!!

 

[ballen0351]

I am not sure that is the case at all anymore our country has become completely polarized and the Conservative right inflamed by its media personalities that would do anything for a buck will stop at nothing to increase ratings and income. Look at health care debate. our voting base has become uneducated and lead by Faciast rhetoric telling them to hate the people that are the problem. Yes nuts are nuts but a good portion of our population is becoming nuts instead of working together and all of us doing the hard work to fix it it is easier to point and call names lie about the facts and a give me mine at the cost of others.

Whats even funnier is the blind almost extinct middle class fighting for the rights of the rich thinking they have a chance of becoming one. Word do matter it was words that put Hitler in power history repeats itself. What is scary is that even conservative commentators are using terms like Robber Barons and things are not going to change for the better with out people loosing everything and violent confrontations on a national basis. I hate that to be called conservative is morally correct but to be a democrat is to called a liberal who is attached with every low moral and negative word phrasing you can think of.

Our politicians have proved there are not democrats or republicans only greedy people have and have not and the sane people who are the majority but split are going to have to work together before we all circle the drain!!

I guess what Im trying to say is someone thats crazy enough to go to a shopping center and shoot a bunch of people is going to be crazy no matter if he listens to Palin, Obama, or his dog sparky. I dont think Palin or Obama can make someone that would normally not do this into a person that would go do it. Your either wired to commit Mass Murder or your not. In his mind he needed to find a reaon for his thoughts and I guess Politics were his thing. Other Mass Murderers found other reason to justify their actions.

As for the rest of your Conservatives are Bad, Liberals are victims, Middle class is stupid post well I disagree

 

[dowan50]

Video of Msnbc blaming the "right" while two months ago there was a guy on advocating violent revolution from the left, it comes in at the 58 second mark.

http://www.breitbart.tv/msnbc-asser...eatured-guest-calling-for-violent-revolution/

Remeber, speech is not the problem here, it is illegal violence that is the problem. I do not agree with censoring any sort of speech, except as an individual. Political speech and the freedom to use it is what a free country is about. The "tone the rhetoric down" idea is the same as trying to ban dungeons and dragons. One guy, shoots a politician out of over 300 million people. That is not a reason to attack free speech, no matter how passionate that speech is.

Censor ship and restriction of free speech no but education on how people in this country can come together from two opposing sides on how to resolve real issues like deficit and jobs, and education instead of looking to the past and blaming must happen.

To say that words do not matter or have no effect when people like Rush and Beck advocate violence on a daily basis for years? Well why do all the corporate risk management training policies want to use or incorporate verbal restraint or behavior modification instead of physical means if words do not matter??????????

 

[billc]

Dowan, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I listen to rush daily and occasionally to beck and they never advocate violence. the ones who do that are on the left. Disagreement is not advocacy for violence. I know the main stream media believes that disagreeing with Obama and healthcare is the same as calling for violence but I for one am tired of that old non-debating point. It is the likes of bill Clinton, after Mcveigh, blaming rush, and the other democrats who try to use any reason to blame conservatives for violence. Just like mayor bloomberg of new york who said he would bet that the time square bomber was angry about healthcare. The actual islamic bomber was quietly ignored.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Censor ship and restriction of free speech no but education on how people in this country can come together from two opposing sides on how to resolve real issues like deficit and jobs, and education instead of looking to the past and blaming must happen.

To say that words do not matter or have no effect when people like Rush and Beck advocate violence on a daily basis for years? Well why do all the corporate risk management training policies want to use or incorporate verbal restraint or behavior modification instead of physical means if words do not matter??????????

I have never listened to Beck, but I read one of his books that someone loaned me and nowhere did it offer any suggestion of violence.
I also listen to talk radio and about once or twice a week i will catch the last 20 minutes or so of rush and I have never once heard him mention anything about hate or violence.
I do listen to John and Ken a local Los Angelos duo who are funny as hell, and slam everyone on all sides of the political spectrum... they do however spot violence, with their "heads on a stick" campaigns. and comments they make. I tend to think that the people saying that these talk show entertainers like Rush, and Beck and whoever are advocating violence and hate are idiots, and ignorant as to what is really being said, adn are just parotting the screaming from their liberal spokesmen and spouting their parties talking points.

 

[Cryozombie]

Did you guys hear? Watching porn makes you commit rape.

from Jared Loughner:


"Terrorist

"If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

"Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

"If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

"You call me a terrorist.

"Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem. "

This guy doesn't need "violent conservative rhetoric", he sounds like he has a few screws loose regardless.

 

[Big Don]

Did you guys hear? Watching porn makes you commit rape.



This guy doesn't need "violent conservative rhetoric", he sounds like he has a few screws loose regardless.

The only people I've ever heard use the term Ad hominem, twice in one post, are liberals...

 

[billc]

My homepage at att.net has this headline "Heated political rhetoric faces scrutiny." Please, can people get real and stop the hand wringing. A lone nut out of 300 million people. The first things yelled are Tea party and Sarah palin. Political rhetoric is supposed to be heated because you want people who care and have passion in the political process.
How many times do you hear, "more people need to get involved in the political process." THe cries of "heated rhetoric" are coming from people who want their opposition to be quiet and stop getting in the way of their agenda items.

 

[Archangel M]

The left using this to knee jerk attack the right could possibly backfire on them. They should tread lightly.

As to Rush and Beck inciting violence...please...try being informed and actually listen to or read something before condemning it.

 

[Big Don]

Arizona gunman tried to join Army, was rejected

By Jeff Schogol Stars and Stripes EXCERPT:
Published: January 9, 2011

WASHINGTON - The man accused of shooting U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and several others Saturday in Arizona was rejected by the Army when he tried to enlist in 2008, according to the Army.
Jared Lee Loughner, who is being held in connection with Saturday’s shooting in Tuscon, wrote on a video posted on his YouTube channel on Dec. 15 that he had visited the military recruiting station in Phoenix, claiming to be a military recruit.
“I didn’t write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application: None,” Loughner wrote on the video.
In fact, he had been rejected by the Army more than two years ago, Army officials said.
END EXCERPT
NOT A VETERAN. But, thanks to the media and various leftist bloggers, celebs, etc, for using this douchebag to slander the military and ACTUAL veterans.

 

[Archangel M]

After the Ft. Hood shootings the media was all "lets not jump to conclusions".

But NOW......

 

[Bill Mattocks]

After the Ft. Hood shootings the media was all "lets not jump to conclusions".

But NOW......

No pot / kettle thing going on here at all? Hmm?

 

[Steve]

I don't know why this guy did what he did, but I agree that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about his motives or affiliations. Clearly he was disturbed and I agree that we shouldn't rush to judge. This sort of craziness is terrible.

I also think that we need to bookmark this thread so that the next time some whackjob does something crazy we'll have some record from posters on this board about the wisdom of patience in situations like this. I expect that certain posters who are condemning any rush to judgement will not hesitate to jump to conclusions if told to do so by their political evangelists, and will need to be reminded of their hypocrisy with their own words.

 

[seasoned]

On the BBC news just now it said a woman disarmed the shooter, any news on that, who and how for example? A brave thing to do if that's the case.

Patricia Maisch was the woman that came out of the waiting line and confronted the shooter while he was reloading. She tackled him to the ground. I just heard this on tv......

 

[Archangel M]

No pot / kettle thing going on here at all? Hmm?

Care to point out what you mean? Some guy yelling "Allahu Akhbar!!" while killing people is a pretty safe bet that religion had a role in his actions. This guy? What does anybody have to make an assumption as to motive? The fact that he's while and killed a Democrat????

 

[billc]

Some delightful political rhetoric from the Daily Kos founder:

http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2011/01/09/about-dangerous-political-rhetoric-markos-edition/

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Care to point out what you mean? Some guy yelling "Allahu Akhbar!!" while killing people is a pretty safe bet that religion had a role in his actions. This guy? What does anybody have to make an assumption as to motive? The fact that he's while and killed a Democrat????

I've pointed out what I mean. Those who don't want to see it are not going to see it.

 

[dowan50]

Dowan, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I listen to rush daily and occasionally to beck and they never advocate violence. the ones who do that are on the left. Disagreement is not advocacy for violence. I know the main stream media believes that disagreeing with Obama and healthcare is the same as calling for violence but I for one am tired of that old non-debating point. It is the likes of bill Clinton, after Mcveigh, blaming rush, and the other democrats who try to use any reason to blame conservatives for violence. Just like mayor bloomberg of new york who said he would bet that the time square bomber was angry about healthcare. The actual islamic bomber was quietly ignored.

I know alot more about beck that you do and I have seen and listened to video clips after video clip of him exactly promoting hate and violence. I happen to be a member of his church and the church which rarely steps in had to distance themselves because the guy is out there speaking as if he is a formally educated theologian for everyone he could not get his facts strait if he someone put one had up his --- like a puppet and gave him the text on a Telepromoter.

Try using facts next time instead of personally attacking me I would give you clips to videos of Beck but people like you do not want to hear facts or anything that does not reinforce their bigoted and class perceptions. Its just easier to call names, lie and if all else fails threaten.

I suppose you think the security guy stomping on the head of an unarmed woman trying to show a sign and talk to a tea bagger candidate was just doing his job and she was so wrong for being a victim.

While agree that profoundly mentally ill people that belong on medication will do what they do the current story opinion of most of the media not mine related to the shooting is that this is still a symptom of a national trend of hostility based on people who feel threatened of loosing power and willing to do and say anything to empower themselves.

You want to debate and your first comment has to be you have no idea what your talking about well if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and tastes like a duck in your opinion its Pork? thats not a debate its denial.