Concealed Carry and Martial Arts.

[K50Marine]

Since you said, that, I'll share that when transitioning from Marine MP to civilian law enforcement, I heard many sneers about how 'unqualified' MPs were compared to their civilian counterparts. Yet we put more rounds downrange PER MONTH than they did per year in my experience. We trained, as you said, drawing from concealed carry. Shooting from concealed or covered positions. Shooting with the weak hand. Shooting with the weapon upside-down and using the pinky finger to pull the trigger. Firing with the weapon soaked in oil (simulating blood). Clearing multiple types of weapons malfunctions safely. Shooting with the weak eye. It went on and on. We did not just cup-and-saucer our pistols, bang out 25 shots at a silhouette target at 25 feet, and go get some beer.

I think it depends on the department Bill. I think military training in many cases is often times overrated. My department and it's officers train all the time. Also, I was an MP in the Army National Guard recently for a few years while at the same time working as a police officer. I found MP training in firearms very lacking compared to the training I had with my police department. I was in the Marines for 10 years (infantry) before I went to the Army or became a cop. Even the patrol rifle training I've received with my department was much better/more realistic than what I received in the Marines, although I did learn my fundamentals at Parris Island. Thanks for your service and your contributions to these forums. I find your posts to be very insightful. Semper Fi.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As K50Marine said it really depends on the department. Some train frequently and have a good program and others not so much. It varies considerably.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

As K50Marine said it really depends on the department. Some train frequently and have a good program and others not so much. It varies considerably.

Agreed. It will range considerably depending upon the resources available to the agency in question. As an example, in our area we have the regional training center for this part of the state (SEPSI). This regional training center hosts training for several surrounding counties that entail a large number of agencies, some of which are quite large. Has two ranges (indoor/outdoor), shoot house, simunitions, FATS, driving ranges and several D.T. rooms. Folks like Tony Lambria, Tony Blauer, ISI, PCR etc. teach there. Everything from advance D.T. to advance firearms training is available throughout the year. This type/level of training isn't available everywhere though or the agency doesn't have the resources or manpower to send officers.

Doesn't need to be that way though as many options exist to train-the-trainer so that an instructor can be trained and then take that training back to the agency. A lot depends on how proactive the administration is for an agency. Prior to the S.O. (2500 member agency) I worked for a local P.D. (50 member agency). The P.D. had the same level of training as the much larger S.O. because of a proactive administration. They didn't have the overall resources, but the training was comparable.

Unfortunately, it is a case-by-case basis. Large doesn't automatically denote best and small isn't necessarily Mayberry.

 

[Junbu]

A firearm can be a force multiplier during a strike , I am one to carry a tac pen, and a good flashlight .a samurai would use guns in this era do t let anyone shame you over being willing to protect yourself and others

 

[Hudson69]

I am an LEO by choice. I am also a martial artist (student really) for the same reason. I carry everywhere I go. I think carrying a firearm is up to the individual whether they are a martial artist or not. My view on firearms is that they are part of "my" martial art. As a cop I have used (and taught) FBI DT, as well as PPCT and an agency specific system. In two of those the firearm was a part of the DT curriculum as much as the baton, pepper-spray, strikes and kicks were. My classical background is EPAK, Wun Hop Kuen Do and Budo Taijutsu. None of these would or should hinder the ability to carry a gun (unless you are talking about a roundhouse kick while employing a cheap ankle holster; that could go bad).

I think that if a martial artist wants to carry a gun then that is their option but having said that they should invest the time in learning to use that gun as much as they learn to strike, kick or grapple. When asked I tell people to consider also having an intermediate tool for self defense as well as just a gun.

 

[lklawson]

When asked I tell people to consider also having an intermediate tool for self defense as well as just a gun.

You should really define "intermediate" in this context.

To some folks, it may mean "knife," which is still Deadly Force. To some folks, it might mean "baton," or "tactical flashlight," which are still impact and might be considered Deadly Force in some situations. To others, it might mean pepper spray, tazer, or some similar "less lethal" option.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

You should really define "intermediate" in this context.

To some folks, it may mean "knife," which is still Deadly Force. To some folks, it might mean "baton," or "tactical flashlight," which are still impact and might be considered Deadly Force in some situations. To others, it might mean pepper spray, tazer, or some similar "less lethal" option.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I'd classify ALL of those as intermediate options, although the ones I generally carry are the knife and flashlight (in addition to a gun, least there be any doubt...).

 

[jks9199]

I'd classify ALL of those as intermediate options, although the ones I generally carry are the knife and flashlight (in addition to a gun, least there be any doubt...).

I wouldn't consider a knife as intermediate, and neither would most courts. It's lethal force, by definition. It's a shorter range weapon -- but still lethal force. It's likely to cause significant injury or death.

Intermediate force options are generally considered to be things that may cause injury, but aren't particularly likely to cause death or injuries that are so serious as to significantly impact life. Sure, you can kill someone with a baton strike to various targets, or blow out their knee... but generally, death or that sort of permanently disabling injury isn't highly likely. You might get someone hypersensitive or even allergic to pepper spray -- but it's not all that likely.

Low level force options are unlikely to cause any real injury; they're usually things like words or "mere presence" (especially of a uniformed cop/security), so-called "soft hands" which are techniques like pushes and holds.

Of course, anything could kill, if things break the right way. These classifications look at reasonably foreseeable outcomes, not every possible outcome. Push someone away, they might fall down and crack their skull... but it's not all that foreseeable. Push 'em off a cliff and serious injury is a whole lot more foreseeable!

 

[Dirty Dog]

I wouldn't consider a knife as intermediate, and neither would most courts. It's lethal force, by definition. It's a shorter range weapon -- but still lethal force. It's likely to cause significant injury or death.

So I grab my Benchmade Barrage or Autostriker (the two I carry most frequently) and yank it out of my pocket. I don't open it. It's no more deadly than the little flashlight, and is used in pretty much exactly the same manner, other than shining it in someones eyes to blind them.