Close them Off vs. Open Them Up

[Gerry Seymour]

How would I know it all depends on the situation and what's available. You can't say exactly what you'd do because there's far to many possibilities in a fight

Ah, but he didn't ask for exacts. He asked for preferences.

 

[Andrew Green]

Cop out, mano.... What do you "try" to make open? Which way would you move or manipulate to get... where?

I think the reason you are getting a hard time is the answer is always "depends". It's like asking a person if you are playing rock-paper-scissors which do you play? Sometimes its best to get on the inside, other times it's best to get on the outside.

 

[drop bear]

I think the reason you are getting a hard time is the answer is always "depends". It's like asking a person if you are playing rock-paper-scissors which do you play? Sometimes its best to get on the inside, other times it's best to get on the outside.

Sissors.

 

[drop bear]

Sound basic tactical advice for striking engagement in initial stages of fight, but doesn't actually answer my question. Go behind the lead arm or step offline into the open space where their centerline is available (groin, belly, solar plex, throat)?

I strike through the middle but move to the outside.

 

[CB Jones]

Dynamite blows up scissors

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you think

- you are better than your opponent, you enter through his front door.
- your opponent is better than you, you enter through his side door.

By using "arm drag", you can switch from one to another.

 

[CB Jones]

If you think

- you are better than your opponent, you enter through his front door.
- your opponent is better than you, you enter through his side door.

And if you are fighting with prison rules you enter through his........never mind.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And if you are fighting with prison rules you enter through his........never mind.

If you can get to your opponent's "side door", you can get to his "back door".

 

[CB Jones]

If you can get to your opponent's "side door", you can get to his "back door".

Well this got awkward

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Well this got awkward

The following terms are commonly used in wrestling.

Front door - space between your both arms.
Side door - space on either side of your arms.
Back door - space behind you.

 

[JP3]

I strike through the middle but move to the outside.

Gotcha. Sound, imo. Of course, Wang's inside route is sound, too, assuming he gets there fastest with the mostest. Being inside in front is devastating when in control.

 

[JP3]

I think the reason you are getting a hard time is the answer is always "depends". It's like asking a person if you are playing rock-paper-scissors which do you play? Sometimes its best to get on the inside, other times it's best to get on the outside.

Andrew, I get that everyone is trying to reduce my theoretical inquiry into preferred method to an actual tactical problem. I'm really only after preference, what you/they would prefer to do if given the opportunity or you/they can manufacture the opportunity.

DropBear's succinct response was what I'm after. As is Wang's. Different thought processes for both of those guys,and both are good for them. People are different, think different, build different, plan different, fight different. I am after the What and why...

It's an interesting conversation to have, the finding out of people's preferences in what they do, and relating that back to their art/arts, length of practice time in years, etc.

 

[JP3]

In general, I prefer closing them off. I like to get just behind a shoulder - what I sometimes call the "creepy position" (because you can whisper creepy stuff in their ear). From there, I have a lot of grappling and striking options, and they have few. If I can't make it that far back, I'll still usually prefer being outside that arm. It reduces their weaponry in most of the same ways, and I really like beating on floating ribs and temples.

The Japanese term for that spot... it was bugging me all week last week. I could not remember for the life of me what the term is for that. I called JW, but he didn't answer. I called Nick Lowry,a nd he knew what it was I was taking about but he's developing old-timers like me as well, so he suggested I call Patrick Parker. Pat is a good guy, and a great teacher, and Nick considers him to be the encyclopedia of all things Japanese arts.

The term is shikaku, meaning "the dead angle." I don't know if dead angle means if the person is at that angle to you, you're dead, or what, but it seems appropo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The Japanese term for that spot... it was bugging me all week last week. I could not remember for the life of me what the term is for that. I called JW, but he didn't answer. I called Nick Lowry,a nd he knew what it was I was taking about but he's developing old-timers like me as well, so he suggested I call Patrick Parker. Pat is a good guy, and a great teacher, and Nick considers him to be the encyclopedia of all things Japanese arts.

The term is shikaku, meaning "the dead angle." I don't know if dead angle means if the person is at that angle to you, you're dead, or what, but it seems appropo.

That's a term I've never heard before. Now I have a new word to use with folks who use the Japanese terms! And it's a sufficiently creepy term, too.

 

[JP3]

That's a term I've never heard before. Now I have a new word to use with folks who use the Japanese terms! And it's a sufficiently creepy term, too.

You can say it creepily, like out of the corner of your mouth, mumbling...shikaku...shikaku...

 

[drop bear]

Gotcha. Sound, imo. Of course, Wang's inside route is sound, too, assuming he gets there fastest with the mostest. Being inside in front is devastating when in control.

So long as you are throwing effective punches. And effective can be kind of tricky. If they cover or counter you should be moving.

Lots of guys get knocked out or taken down because they get too ambitious in that middle position.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can say it creepily, like out of the corner of your mouth, mumbling...shikaku...shikaku...

I told my wife that exact thing after I read your post. She agreed that "dead angle" is sufficiently creepy, too. So, at a school where they don't use Japanese terms, whispering "dead angle" has a very nice creepiness factor.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So long as you are throwing effective punches. And effective can be kind of tricky. If they cover or counter you should be moving.

Lots of guys get knocked out or taken down because they get too ambitious in that middle position.

Yeah, and I have problems there sometimes. I can get oddly linear (not even angular, just linear) when I'm sparring with someone less skilled. I think I pay too much attention to what they are seeing, rather than my own sparring. And I get hit a lot more than I should in those situations because I sit in that middle position too much. And I'm getting slower on my changes and less able to change levels as my knees get worse, so I can't recover from that error like I once could.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, and I have problems there sometimes. I can get oddly linear (not even angular, just linear) when I'm sparring with someone less skilled. I think I pay too much attention to what they are seeing, rather than my own sparring. And I get hit a lot more than I should in those situations because I sit in that middle position too much. And I'm getting slower on my changes and less able to change levels as my knees get worse, so I can't recover from that error like I once could.

It is really common. Because you think you are winning and can go a bit crazy.

 

[JP3]

Yeah, and I have problems there sometimes. I can get oddly linear (not even angular, just linear) when I'm sparring with someone less skilled. I think I pay too much attention to what they are seeing, rather than my own sparring. And I get hit a lot more than I should in those situations because I sit in that middle position too much. And I'm getting slower on my changes and less able to change levels as my knees get worse, so I can't recover from that error like I once could.

A guy with whom I used to train called it, fighting right down the other guy's gun barrel.

Not really something I like to do. I'd rather, very much rather, attack the "gun" in this metaphor, coming in laterally alongside the trigger.