Actually, I find most of the comments there to be quite intelligent, and at a higher caliber than my local papers commentary. But, there's wackaloos in every group, and the "fluffy bunny pagans" irk me quite a bit.
Christian minister beaten by muslims
- Thread starter Twin Fist
- Start date
Wait. What? We can't judge everybody in a group by a few isolated crazies? No fair!!!
-Rob
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
This article, if accurately reported, is interesting:
Evil flourishes while men of good will do nothing.
You don't have to agree with someone to stick up for them. One or two soldiers step into the breach and say, "Leave him alone. He isn't hurting you." The behaviour here is exactly like people who have got their jockstraps in a twist over gay rights -- it just doesn't actually affect them, but they have to fight it just it's different from their beliefs.
Quite so, Gordon.
I am depressed that a group of people that I think so highly of (that's you lot, my fellow MT members!) cannot get beyond the "well 'they' do xyz" stage on this topic.
That is so completely not the point. What people of 'faith' who are not extremist nut-jobs need to deal with is what is done in the name of their particular mythology or lack of same.
Do I think that all Muslims are evil because of what those in the OP did? No, of course I don't. Do I think they did what they because of their interpretation of their faith? Well, yes, I do. I feel the same about those Christian 'skinned' loonies from the other mentioned thread. I feel the same about various 'weird' things I've heard about certain pagan/atheist/satanic groups.
I can't stress enough, ladies and gentlemen, that debate can never amount to anything amongst those who absolutely refuse to see the point of view of those with whom they disagree.
I am depressed that a group of people that I think so highly of (that's you lot, my fellow MT members!) cannot get beyond the "well 'they' do xyz" stage on this topic.
That is so completely not the point. What people of 'faith' who are not extremist nut-jobs need to deal with is what is done in the name of their particular mythology or lack of same.
Do I think that all Muslims are evil because of what those in the OP did? No, of course I don't. Do I think they did what they because of their interpretation of their faith? Well, yes, I do. I feel the same about those Christian 'skinned' loonies from the other mentioned thread. I feel the same about various 'weird' things I've heard about certain pagan/atheist/satanic groups.
I can't stress enough, ladies and gentlemen, that debate can never amount to anything amongst those who absolutely refuse to see the point of view of those with whom they disagree.
Exactly!!!!!!
Hagakure
Blue Belt
Oh, but it's SO much fun.
I'm with BH on this, people of different faiths ought to learn to grow up and get along. I'm sure many do, but too many don't. It's all well and good saying "Ah, but it's only 1% of Muslims/Christians/Jews/X who commit such bad deeds". That's actually still likely to run into the low millions. Not much some may argue, I'd argue otherwise.
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w-w-WHAT!?!?!???!?!???
People fight and kill each other over different religions?!?!??
I don't believe you.
People fight and kill each other over different religions?!?!??
I don't believe you.
Hagakure
Blue Belt
I KNOW, who'da thunk it eh? Crazy buggers.
I have been thinking of what to say since I read the first of this thread, along with what has been said in each post since.
I find it interesting to see how many of you turn on each other over the subject of religion. I think it is pretty sad at best. I thought that we, as martial artists, are supposed to be above these arguements. I know that I have allowed myself to get involved in these little fights and for that I feel terrible. So I will try to be a little more impartial and look at the facts.
1.) A Christian Minister was beaten by 3 Muslims.
2.) The 3 that did the beating threatened to come back ifhe didnot stop his ministry.
3.) The Minister has his program on a questionable television station.
I am sure there are other things that could go on the list, but I think these are enough to get a clean discussion going.
What part of these items above make it justifiable. In what world does it make it the Ministers fault for getting beaten? I didn't see a group of Christians beating a Muslim cleric(sorry for not knowing what to call the cleric by title).
So, my question is, why are so many people attacking Christians when it was a Christian being attacked?
Please understand, I am just trying to figure things out and not trying to start anything. I am trying to be impartial.
Thank you, I hope my random thoughts are not to confusing.
I find it interesting to see how many of you turn on each other over the subject of religion. I think it is pretty sad at best. I thought that we, as martial artists, are supposed to be above these arguements. I know that I have allowed myself to get involved in these little fights and for that I feel terrible. So I will try to be a little more impartial and look at the facts.
1.) A Christian Minister was beaten by 3 Muslims.
2.) The 3 that did the beating threatened to come back ifhe didnot stop his ministry.
3.) The Minister has his program on a questionable television station.
I am sure there are other things that could go on the list, but I think these are enough to get a clean discussion going.
What part of these items above make it justifiable. In what world does it make it the Ministers fault for getting beaten? I didn't see a group of Christians beating a Muslim cleric(sorry for not knowing what to call the cleric by title).
So, my question is, why are so many people attacking Christians when it was a Christian being attacked?
Please understand, I am just trying to figure things out and not trying to start anything. I am trying to be impartial.
Thank you, I hope my random thoughts are not to confusing.
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Who's attacking Christians?
Precisely, no one here was justifying attacks on anyone. No one was saying that it was right to attack anyone and no one was having a go at Christians.
I think perhaps,Searcher, you have been misreading the posts?
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Tell,
You're referring to the despicable Iraq war. Are you saying the British and US troops are Christian troops, or that that is how they are perceived by Iraqis? It's a frightening proposition, isn't it? A six-year holy war.
That's basically how the right chose to market it.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
I'm sure there are enough nut cases out there that buy into the idea of sending allied troops into Iraq to fight Islam. I called attention to Tellner's remark because I don't think that has been said out loud until recently. The US and Britain find themselves in a holy war. In that context, events like the one described in the OP, though indefensible, are a natural outcome of religious extremism dictating policy.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Which Muslims?
So their opinions don't count? Perception is reality.
If people perceive it as a holy war, then that's what it is for them. Given that an abundance of arguments for going into the exercise have proven false, including the notion that allied forces would be seen like the liberators of France during WWII -- with champagne corks and blouse buttons popping -- then one is left with very few ways of describing this war.
Pogrom works, and while the word is from Yiddish, it isn't restricted to anti-Semitism. The 1984 massacre of thousands of Sikhs in the wake of Indira Gandhi's assasination is another example of a pogrom.
Pogroms don't have to be based on faith, but when the fit hits the shan...they usually are.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
And Lieutenant General William G. Boykin.
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