So, what's with the religious threads?

[kaizasosei]

Shoji soku nehan
bonno soku bodai

defilements accelerate the attainment of enlightenment
Delusionary passions accelerate the attainment of buddhahood

so that would propose that sin and enlightenment are the same energies only expressed in different ways.
A Rabbi once said that if one person points out a tree to another and says, 'look how beautiful that tree is', that person is hurting his own soul. Strange but interesting-

But i'd definately use great caution when dealing with hormones going haywire. Dunno about women being 'unclean' when they have their period, but definately not a bad idea to keep a little distance and not tick them off.

j

 

[thardey]

Any time you bring up religion, people become worried that their invisible friend might not be as cool as everyone elses, so they periodically have to explain how great theirs is usually by slaughtering as many others as they can. Other times, they need to blame someone else for their own malfunctions an phobias, so this invisible master is a convenient scapegoat. They of course look down their noses at those who have visible friends, since rocks and trees and cats aren't "special" enough.

I like the Spagetti Monster because he's meatballs above the rest.

Are you doing your part to stop global warming? How much piracy have you commited lately?

Seriously, though not "any time" just most of the time. I think that's why "The Path" is described as "narrow" -- people miss the point and use religous weapons to beat people into submission, because of their own insecurity. Ironically enough, these are the people who think that they're on the "narrow path" when in reality, there are so many others there with them, it just might be the highway.

 

[thardey]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, especially thardey's, but I'm going to have to address some of it.



This notion of "hell," which is an interesting word in itself, if one examines the Anglo-Saxon roots of it, is somewhat erroneous.

In the Bible four words are translated"Hell": the Hebrew word sheol, in the original Old testament; its equivalent, the Greek word hades, in the Septuagint; and in the New Testament, hades, Gehenna and Tartarus.

*snipped*

When we mix the language of the Bible, both Old and New Testament, with pagan mythology though, we get very Homeric notions of an afterlife of torment for the wicked-such was not the case for Hebrews and early Christians, and was not their intent. I'm pretty sure the notion of "hell" was an invention of the clergy to better control the masses.

Absolutely. Having stood at the "Gates of Hades" in Ceasarea Phlippi, at the shrine to Pan, it made me realize how much the Greek concept of "Hades" has infiltrated the traditions of the Church. I think the modern concept of "Hell" has done as much damage as anything I can think of as far as pushing people to the "religiousness" end of religion. Except maybe mixing in the Greek notion of "Heaven" -- that's done a world of damage, too.

I'm also sure that a loving God has no intention of any of us spending an eternity in torment. I'd stake my soul on it.

In fact, I am. :lfao:

IMHO, for me, the worst thing I can imagine at this point in my life is to be separated from God for all of eternity. That's both due to what I believe is a personal relationship with him, and due to my belief that all good things come from him. Also, that means separation from all who are with him. I don't see a Hell that can be any worse than that.

However, if, for some reason, I hated God (and I completely understand that there are reasons), then being forced to spend eternity with him in "heaven" would be the worst thing imaginable. Even worse than being left alone. I believe that those who don't want to be with God now, won't be forced to be with God in the future. For me, that's hell. For many, that's mercy.

There's only two things that are made clear to me about the afterlife in the Bible, and that's all I will truly defend. 1.) It's eternal. We don't just vanish. 2.) We will either be with God, or we won't.

That's why I would rather learn the truth about God now, while I still know I have a choice of whether I want to be with him or not. I'm not guaranteed that choice after I die.

And thanks again for your reply, and your words of wisdom about the nature of "love." I'm also all too aware of the obligation to "spread the good news," and understand how people might be expressing their love by prostletyzing. However, I don't always agree with it-I tend to think that such people should consider their obligation fulfilled when they receive a simple No, thank you. Some do, and some push even harder. They have a problem with that 11th commandment I was talking about. :lol:

Again, absolutely. I've been with people who won't respect people's boundaries, and I won't be associated with them. Done correctly, "prostletyzing" should be nothing more than people's honest worship of God. If they try to force more than that into it, they're warping the point.

On the other hand, there are many people who are thankful, and were very glad that I took the time to talk to them, and answer their questions, far more than those who were annoyed. Of course, I also backed off when people said "No, Thanks" and didn't push it.

Later, I developed more obnoxious methods of repelling the prostletyzers, but my wife taught me a lesson about this. Some kids came to the door, asked Do you think world peace can be brought about by governments?, and she said No. That can only come from our Heavenly Father. The kids said exactly, left their pamphlets, and went back to their car. Whole thing took about twenty seconds. :lfao:

Anyway, while I'm now normally more tolerant of such people, I'm even more tolerant of those who take the hint, and move along......though I'm now more than willing to answer them the way my wife does-she wins the porch prostletyzer repelling competition hands down!

You know, every time I try that, it just encourages them! Although I've been told that I would make a good Jehovah's Witness, and a Good Mormon, though they each can't stand eacher other. Go figure.

 

[morph4me]

First, I just want to say that I'm not a religious person, I think that religion serves a purpose in some peoples lives, but whatever that purpose is, I must be having my needs mets elsewhere, because it does nothing for me. That being said, I am really enjoying this exchange, the mutual respect even in disagreement is not the norm when talking about religion. I've had people come to my door and have had discussions about religion with them that have lasted for 45 minutes, others come and I just tell them I'm not interested, it really depends on their approach. I recently had a couple come to the door and tell me they wanted to teach me how to read the bible, I told them " No, you want to teach my how you interpret the bible, not interested" and closed the door. Over the years my ideas of God and the afterlife have chaned, at this point I believe that death is just another phase of life, like learning to walk, becoming an adult, etc. I belibe that my essence will leave my body and join with other energies in the universe and what happens after that, who knows. I have a difficult time with the concept of heaven or hell. I would like to ask a question about something that thardey said though, maybe it will help me understand something that I never really understood. Please understand I'm not trying to be argumentative or discount anyone's belief's and if I come across that way in future posts I apologize in advance, for me this is purely and intellectual exercise that may lead to other lines of thought.

That's why I would rather learn the truth about God now, while I still know I have a choice of whether I want to be with him or not. I'm not guaranteed that choice after I die

.

How do you know you're learning the truth about God now? How do you know it's the truth and how are you going about it?

 

[thardey]

How do you know you're learning the truth about God now? How do you know it's the truth and how are you going about it?

The "short" answer is that I test my beliefs in a similar way to Martial arts. I put them out to be examined by others. It's not so much that I will only believe if I can convince everyone, because that leads to a place where my beliefs are based on how many people agree with me, which isn't trustworthy.

But, if, in a respectful exchange, I lay my beliefs out for people of other faiths to examine and question, to probe and poke, they cause me to ask new questions, or reject superficial traditions (like Elder's input about "Hell" above.) The more I can do that, the more I can refine what I do believe, and strengthen my faith in those beliefs which "survive."

If I explain more than that, about my experiences, how those beliefs fit into that, which ones I've re-interpreted, how I interpret them with the Bible, etc., then I do get into a level of prostheletizing that probably isn't appropriate here. I would be happy to continue this via private mail, or perhaps in the Philosophy section, but there only under very specific ground rules, out of respect for the nature of what Bob is trying to do with this site in general.

Actually, participating in this site is becoming a large part of my Spritual discipline. I bring up discussions that I've had here with my Bible Study group, and we examine them, and use them to ask difficult questions. Some of those who've been in church all their life are shocked by the questions that get asked. They've just never considered the Bible from that perspective. Also, connecting with you all helps keep me grounded in "real life" -- it's easy to get complacent when you're only around "church people" all the time, or people who already agree with you in general.

 

[jarrod]

Second, you're absolutely right about the "Greatest Commandment" -- it is even more important that John 3:16, because "God so loved the world" is interpreted in light of "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." For the purpose of sending "His one and only son" was so that we would be able to understand and enter into His love for us, and "We love him, because he first loved us."

personally speaking, i really like this sentiment in the bible but it failed miserably for me. the reason being that the bible spends very little time teaching you how to love yourself. if you hate yourself, you end up hating everyone around you by extension.

jf