Chin Na????

[RyuShiKan]

I am just wondering if we should clarify what "Classical" is.
The art that I train is is considered a Classical art, however it is far from being a "museum" art.
By museum I mean one that has room for thinking outside the box or asking questions.
We are encouraged to ask questions in fact it is in our "Dojo Principles".

The statement "use what is useful and forget the rest" I think was taken out of context.

For instance how the hell would a beginner know what is useful?

 

[chufeng]

My point exactly...

At what point does one know enough to start discarding things?

Hell if I know, but I'm not there yet.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

I am just wondering if we should clarify what "Classical" is.
The art that I train is is considered a Classical art, however it is far from being a "museum" art.
By museum I mean one that has room for thinking outside the box or asking questions.
We are encouraged to ask questions in fact it is in our "Dojo Principles".

The statement "use what is useful and forget the rest" I think was taken out of context.

For instance how the hell would a beginner know what is useful?

I agree .. but tell me this ... Is there any art that you know of that
has a definite begining and end? Like "learn all of THIS and you're
rank after that comes from how long you've been in the art". My
personal feeling is that EPAK does, and some of the seniors in
that art feel the same way, even though there's an infinite
amount of "fine tuning" one can learn. But there's a specific
amount of techs to learn, and some say that after b.b. it's all
about overkill ... running the point into the ground. So in THIS
aspect, I'm not going to look to cross train and look for things
that can be added to my base art, until I'm an experienced b.b.

As for the Classical art thing .. MAYBE it's because of Bruce Lee's
statement that the "classical" arts started to think outside the
box? I dunno, and wouldn't have any idea, but it's just something
to think about. I mean he was HUGE in Hong Kong, China, and
the states, was he not? Maybe he put that bug into a lot of
martial artist's minds?

I can't help but laugh at so many 25 yr olds that have 20 yellow
belts and have started their own style LOL.

 

[chufeng]

Kirk,

Without trying to sound confrontational...your comment about "everything after black belt is just overkill" bothers me.

In most systems, mine included, real learning doesn't even begin until black belt level...Shoot, in Shotokan (JKA) they don't even teach correct breathing until Sandan...

But the rest of your post was good...

Lots of BS created by the blind who were taught by the unknowing....

:asian:
chufeng

 

[karatekid1975]

Ok, how did this turn into a Bruce Lee thing?

Anyway, Thanks Kempo Bob for book suggestion

And thanks, fissure, for defending me. It's not that my teacher doesn't do much teaching, it's the way he teaches sometimes, that I don't agree with. And I am very thirsty for knowledge. Anything to do with MA hehehehehehe.

And I'll leave the Bruce Lee thing alone :barf: I'll go back to the Korean arts forum where I belong.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by chufeng

Kirk,

Without trying to sound confrontational...your comment about "everything after black belt is just overkill" bothers me.

In most systems, mine included, real learning doesn't even begin until black belt level...Shoot, in Shotokan (JKA) they don't even teach correct breathing until Sandan...

Okay, I wasn't saying it empatically, I've only been studying for
a year, so I wouldn't know. I'm just repeating an opinion that
I've been told. But that's not to say that there's nothing more
to learn at that point, cause no one knows it all, but in essence,
the curriculum is done at 1st black. The rest is all extensions of
what you've already been taught. I guess I could compare it
to addition. Once you learn HOW to add, then 21 + 43, is no
different than 21 + 43+ 54. Again, not all kenpoists share this
opinion, and I'm not even qualified to have one yet ... but it
is a common opinion.

 

[Dronak]

I don't know enough about martial arts to have a real opinion on the matter either, Kirk, but I think I can see where that idea comes from. Once you learn all the important basic stuff, things do tend to become a variation on the theme. It's not really new, it's just a twist on what you've already learned. I've seen that sort of thing in a lot of my physics related exams. You learn rules and methods for solving certain types of problems. That's usually homework. Then the exam gives you something a little different than what you've done already, asking you to consider one extra factor this time around let's say. It's not really anything new, you've done it all before, you just need to put the different pieces together to solve this problem. So yeah, in a sense you can reach a point where you know all the main themes and everything else becomes variations on them. Just a thought.

 

[chufeng]

Variations on a theme...yes and no.

Certainly one can look at angles of attack and see variety with the same technique, but, there is so much more to it. It is like an onion...every layer you peel back exposes another layer...

At some point a block is NOT a block and a punch is NOT a punch.

...and you keep peeling the layers and you eventually arrive at the middle to find...NOTHING.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kirk




Okay, I wasn't saying it empatically, I've only been studying for
a year, so I wouldn't know. I'm just repeating an opinion that
I've been told. But that's not to say that there's nothing more
to learn at that point, cause no one knows it all, but in essence,
the curriculum is done at 1st black. The rest is all extensions of
what you've already been taught. ...................

Curriculum done at black belt?????? Must be a short curriculum.
I can remember my teacher saying after about 50 years of training that he felt he was only half way of where he thought he could go.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng

Variations on a theme...yes and no.

Certainly one can look at angles of attack and see variety with the same technique, but, there is so much more to it. It is like an onion...every layer you peel back exposes another layer...

At some point a block is NOT a block and a punch is NOT a punch.

...and you keep peeling the layers and you eventually arrive at the middle to find...NOTHING.

:asian:
chufeng

Interesting..........
Reminds me of a Zen story when the student was told to think of NO-THING.


Maybe the layers of the onion and the onion itself are like another Zen story about a Zen master when asked which came first the Chicken or the egg to which he replied "the Chicken is the egg"

 

[chufeng]

Allan Watts once said that the chicken is the vehicle whereby eggs are able to reproduce more eggs...it is not the chicken wanting more chickens...

It makes one step back and look at every situation a little differently when you apply that kind of perspective to it.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Alan Watts' book called "The Way of Zen" was one of my first books on Zen, a good read. He was way ahead of his time.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by chufeng

Allan Watts once said that the chicken is the vehicle whereby eggs are able to reproduce more eggs...it is not the chicken wanting more chickens...

This is biologist Richard Dawkins' view too ("The Gene Machine" theory that we're just shells for our selfish genes to propagate themselves).