Chin Na (need some help)

[profesormental]

Greetings!

Most Chinese Martial arts have the following major tool sets (this is also discussed in previous threads...)

Shuai Jiao (throwing and projections)
Chin Na (joint manipulations and controls)
Strikes (KO's, defensive strikes and point spotting)
Leg Manuvers (footwork, Kicks and positioning)


Chin Na, as it's name implies is any technique that has as components seizing or grabbing in conjuntion with a control aspect...

and most controls, if you put enough leverage and pressure, can be the difference between a concession hold and a joint break, an organ rupture, an asphixiation or strangulation... or worse!

Much fun stuff!

And yes, Dr. Yang has excellent literature on this... specially his first book on the subject.

The bigger one is just expanded with examples... yet both are really good.

Unfortunately, the most important part of the training is not mentioned explicitly in the books...

which is the flow of techniques as a response to realistic committed attacks...

which is NOT setup by the Chin Na...

and the transitions to Shuai Jiao...

which IS setup by the Chin Na!

Chin Na by itself is very interesting, yet it will get you hit if you don't train with the other aspects in continous flow towards you objective...

escape, control, hurt, injure, maim, kill.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

 

[7starmantis]

I agree, training the chin na itself is a must to learn the technique, but you also must train the setting up, and transitions in and out of them.

Just for fun, here are a few videos of some good finger chin na performed and explained by Dr Yang.

#1

#2

#3

#4

Enjoy,
7sm

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Would it be a good assumption that the setups and transitions for Chi Na would be similar to those of jujitsu?

Jeff

 

[Kensai]

I agree, training the chin na itself is a must to learn the technique, but you also must train the setting up, and transitions in and out of them.

Just for fun, here are a few videos of some good finger chin na performed and explained by Dr Yang.

#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c25uWLrO5jU

#2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lYphncfIb4

#3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFWS6ZisVE4

#4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dohp8qLQfpg

Enjoy,
7sm

They were very cool. Thanks for that mate.

 

[Syn]

Hmm though most wrestlers don't think of this, and mainly work on the upper body, my sifu told my friend to build up his horse stance so that he can ground himself really well. After developing it he start kicking major as at doing seatbelts and such with all the leg strength he has.

Just do a horse stance for about 10 minutes a day. When your legs get too tired stand up for about 30 seconds and then keep going.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I agree, training the chin na itself is a must to learn the technique, but you also must train the setting up, and transitions in and out of them.

Just for fun, here are a few videos of some good finger chin na performed and explained by Dr Yang.

#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c25uWLrO5jU

#2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lYphncfIb4

#3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFWS6ZisVE4

#4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dohp8qLQfpg

Enjoy,
7sm

Cool

And yet somehow a couple of those are painfully familiar

 

[7starmantis]

Would it be a good assumption that the setups and transitions for Chi Na would be similar to those of jujitsu?

Jeff

Um, probably to a point, but the techniques are much different using different types of locks and such.

7sm

 

[CuongNhuka]

thanks folks. and who says kung fu is only a striking art?

 

[DBACPhoenix]

All Chin Na can be placed into the following categories:

Bone Seperation
Muscle Dividing
Sealing The Air
Sealing The Vein
Cavity Pressing

And while at full speed Chin Na techniques can be devistating, I find it the best way to demonstrate CMA.

People love to see immediate results, and Chin Na can definatly do that. Anyone who is controlled with their Chin Na can take a person and practically make them dance for you by correctly chaining together different Chin Na techniques.

And as it was said before, Chin Na will definatly make you learn the intricasies of the human body and the way it can (and can't) move. An expert in Chin Na doesn't need to think about what techniques they could apply, but what ways can the opponents body be manipulated.

As for using this in wrestling, it is definatly possible if you keep it under control. The second someone screams the ref is going to stop the match. When I wrestled in High School I used plenty of wrist wraps to get my opponent to drop his guard. You only need a brief moment where your opponent diverts his attention elsewhere so you can strike with a take down. Knowledge of Chin Na would also help when trying to position your opponent for a pin as it shows you were the human body has strength, and where it is weak.

Of course Chin Na is not simple to understand or perfect and while almost every martial art has an element of Chin Na within it, you could spend a lifetime just training Chin Na (i.e. Aikedo).

 

[profesormental]

Greetings!

Chin Na is one of the most devastation modalities of Kung Fu, as well as one of the most humane... pain compliance and control to a degree... if you go further... permanent maiming and death!

Cool!

On the similarities with several styles of jujitsu, there are similarities in the sequences for joint manipulation and cavity pressing...

yet it depends on the individual instructor, for some have not been taught, while others have or they've found the applications with diligent study.

There are sequences that start with a cavity press, then muscle dividing then seting up the opponent for sealing the vein or the air.

Teh setup chains tend to be a better teaching tool than just the technique.

More later, gotta go!

Juan M. Mercado

 

[CuongNhuka]

intresting

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Just got Dr. Yang's "Comprehensive Applications of Shaolin Chin Na" today. Very interesting to see the roots of jujitsu. The transitions are very different from the beginning levels of jujitsu, but look a lot like the more advanced ones. At least in what I've been taught.

Jeff

 

[Jade Tigress]

Just got Dr. Yang's "Comprehensive Applications of Shaolin Chin Na" today. Very interesting to see the roots of jujitsu. The transitions are very different from the beginning levels of jujitsu, but look a lot like the more advanced ones. At least in what I've been taught.

Jeff

Yep, a couple years ago my Sifu recommended this book. I believe the one you just got is the updated version so to speak.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Yep, a couple years ago my Sifu recommended this book. I believe the one you just got is the updated version so to speak.

And about $25 more expensive. But it does have a crapload of techniques in it.

Jeff

 

[barnaby]

Yang Jwing Ming aka Dr Yang. His main school is outside of Boston.

He is VERY good at Qinna, I have had some experience with his Qinna ability. "

I actually took a seminar with him here in New Mexico. my training partner, curious and enthusiastic, asked a question about an application called, "Turning to Face the Gorrilla," or something like this while I was nearby, so hedmonstrated on me -- Dr. Yang sort of "picked me up" over his shoulder, using my elbow as the lifting point and the pain quickly shot up to my shoulder and neck. I applied medicine and was ready to start "thanking" my partner for his question after a few rounds sitting out. Really though, he is terrific, I'm glad this conversation brought you to checking his material out, Jeff -- Best, Barnaby