Nobody is riding the brakes. Again, the post was asking people who TRAINED in Chin Na to share those experiences. We don’t really need to explore fight scenarios, there are plenty of those threads. I want to know about your TRAINING.
Thank you for staying with the topic of the thread. I wonder if I was not clear about what I meant about force use in this particular context? The force is applied once the lock is accomplished is a better way to describe it. If force is applied in the attempt to lock then it becomes a strength vs strength contest. Dr. Yang has been very clear about this each time we train. Training being the key word, people are so wrapped up in the ninja/gangster/ISIS ambush scenarios that they miss the point. I’m learning Chin Na because it relates to my hobby that I love.
I don’t understand this post. I’m asking about your experiences training, not advice on mine. Just how much is the “correct amount of force” ? I’m well aware of how CMA punches work. I don’t need, or want too much force in a jab either. I am talking about training and sparring, not fighting, so then, it would appear you agree with me that less force is better since I’m just learning and not trying to maim a training brother. Again, tell me about your experiences in training Chin Na with your instructor, that’s what I’m interested in.
Many years ago when I was at a push hands seminar in Boston, when Dr Yang main school was there, I was talking to one of the his teachers at the school about the seminars and he told me they all had there personality
The 3 steps wrist lock is a good example that indicate the locking skill need to be changed depending on your opponent's respond. In other words, you need to train how to move from one lock into next lock.
I remember you telling me this when I started and overall, I agree.Many years ago when I was at a push hands seminar in Boston, when Dr Yang main school was there, I was talking to one of the his teachers at the school about the seminars and he told me they all had there personality
Push hands and Taiji were pretty normal
Qigong folks were a bit spacey
Qinna folks belonged in Prison
Does it make sense to use your left hand to grab on your opponent's right wrist? Your opponent's left hand can punch on your face.
The only training I'm doing at the moment are the Fundamental Training exercises and conditioning found in the book Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na - 1nd Edition by Jwing-Ming Yang.
Or move your feet while doing something something something. They are just standing there.Does it make sense to use your left hand to grab on your opponent's right wrist? Your opponent's left hand can punch on your face.
When you use left hand to grab on your opponent's left wrist, if your opponent's right hand tries to punch on your face, you can pull his left arm to jam his right arm. You can't do that in the above video.
IMO, when you use left hand to control your opponent's right wrist, you should also use your right hand to control his left wrist (so he can't punch you).
But you had a teacher that taught you this stuff in your Jow Ga kwoon?
Another thing that doesn't make sense in this video is when his opponent uses left hand to grab on his right wrist, he turns his right hand counterclockwise to against his opponent's 4 fingers instead of to turn his right hand clockwise to against his opponent's 1 finger, the thumb. If his opponent has strong grip, he may not be able to turn his right hand counterclockwise (4 fingers strength is much stronger than 1 finger strength).
I'm not giving you advice on your training. It's the wording of "applying the least amount" I've just seen many people take that into the wrong direction when it comes to martial arts. For example, I've heard many people say things like "use the least amount....." to defeat someone or to use a technique, yet all of the people I've met who knew how to apply their martial arts were strong.
How about "least amount necessary to make the technique work"?
This is what is a better explanation. I just really don't like the "apply the least" phrases so it's just one of my soap box thing lol. The only days I've know kung fu to be "the least" amount were my healing days lol.
To break a grip by turning against 1 finger (the thumb) can use less force than by turning against 4 fingers. So the correct force direction may be the better term.
I like the most explanation Wing Woo gave. Least amount is just an eye of the beholder type thing. The least amount for you would probably still be a considerable amount for someone else. best example I can give is forearm conditioning where one partner thinks he's giving "baby taps" why the other person feels like their arm is about to break.
I like this one as well.
It's probably depends on the stance that you or your opponent is in. I know for me I'm only going to offer one arm to grab unless I'm in closer range.. I feel comfortable when I only have one arm to think about vs 2.Does it make sense to use your left hand to grab on your opponent's right wrist? Your opponent's left hand can punch on your face.
When you use left hand to grab on your opponent's left wrist, if your opponent's right hand tries to punch on your face, you can pull his left arm to jam his right arm. You can't do that in the above video.
IMO, when you use left hand to control your opponent's right wrist, you should also use your right hand to control his left wrist (so he can't punch you).
Brute force is like Woo was describing when it becomes a competition of strength vs strength. In your example clip. What you are doing is using strength but you aren't brute forcing it. Brute force would be like you see that I'm ready to defend against your pull, but you go for the pull anyway so that you can use greater strength against resistance. But in your videos. It looks like you are pulling when your opponent is not expecting it and then when he tries to stop you with brute a stronger force, then you stopped using strength in one direction and then apply it in another direction.
