Child Support Stay

[Kreth]

The Family Court system is out of control in NY. When my ex and I split up, we agreed that I would pay support, and had worked out visitation. We still had to make no less than six trips to court, taking time off from work, of course, to get things "officially" settled.

 

[rutherford]

I think the system needs a major overhall. We need to level the playing feild between men and woman so that they have equal rights and protections under the law. An example of this is the reformation of child support. This should be determined by the amount of time the child spends with either parent. If the child is with both parents exactly 50% of the time, why should child support payments be needed at all?

Think about the incentive that changing the rules to THAT would have? Fathers (and some Mothers) would have no financial obligation if they shared custody 50/50...and that, IMO, wouldn't that be ideal for the child...and best for everyone involved?

Well, this varies from state to state. Vermont has a very involved calculation, and it does not take into acount the sex of the participants - indeed, both participants might be of the SAME SEX. We do have civil unions here.

It also takes into account the percentage of time the children are with each parent - as well as the incomes of the parents involved. (And that's the answer to your question. The law here is based on the idea that children deserve to expect a certain standard of living at both parents homes as well as ensuring that parents continue to spend what they would have spent on their children if they were still together.)

Now, of course the calculation is still just a calculation and doesn't fit everybody's situation perfectly. But it does try to be fair.

How's your state do? I guess WI and NY aren't so good, eh?

 

[rutherford]

The Family Court system is out of control in NY. When my ex and I split up, we agreed that I would pay support, and had worked out visitation. We still had to make no less than six trips to court, taking time off from work, of course, to get things "officially" settled.

Takes 6 months to get a divorce in VT.

 

[Kreth]

Takes 6 months to get a divorce in VT.

Except we weren't married... :uhyeah:
We had to keep going back because each trip, they could only deal with one thing, ie. one trip to "assign" custody that we'd already agreed on, one trip to ascertain her financial status, another to figure out mine, yet another to set my support payment amount, and so on...

 

[rutherford]

So what about the other side that does not feel the same way? Under the system now, if protection fails and the woman gets pregnant- she is the only one with the choice- but I have responsibilities. The man can't make her get an abortion or prevent her from having one. Yet he must pay.

If the woman makes the choice- and only she can make that choice, then I don't see how someone can be legally forced to be responsible for that choice.

Well, of course the idea is that the responsibility isn't for the choice to have or not have an abortion.

The responsibility is for the choice to have or not have sexual relations. A choice I gladly make as often as possible.

 

[rutherford]

Except we weren't married... :uhyeah:
We had to keep going back because each trip, they could only deal with one thing, ie. one trip to "assign" custody that we'd already agreed on, one trip to ascertain her financial status, another to figure out mine, yet another to set my support payment amount, and so on...

Ahhh.

Our trips to court are not so frequent. Especially in amicable seperations. Reviewing finances and setting a support payment can be done in a single visit, as long as the magistrate approves the agreement as fair to all parties involved.

However, we do have to take classes. Many states require a class on helping children cope with seperation, and I enjoyed that class as well as a Pro Se education course on representing yourself in court.

 

[Cryozombie]

Its not just NY that its out of control.

My roommate has been jailed twice for failure to pay child support.

The first time his support payments were over 100% of his income (which is a big no no in the first place) and he couldn't pay. As a result he was tossed in the Klink for 6 months.

Heres the kick in the pants.

The Judge Refused a motion to put a hold on the child support while he was in jail making no money.

So a couple years down the line, when he thought everything was squared away, he had the payments reduced... (Its still more than he can afford, the guy is broker than me) Sherriffs Police showed up and hauled him into Jail again. Reason? INTEREST on the BACK support from when he was in jail the first time.

Meanwhile, she has a nice office job, according to someone I knew who worked with her makes GOOD money, and is re-married to another Guy... they are doing just fine.

And before you give the "You play you pay" argument... This is his EX WIFE, who is his EX WIFE because he came home and caught her in bed with the Neighbor... SHE Played while he worked to Pay.
​

 

[BrandiJo]

the system is flawed all the way around, but to give men the opertunity to opt out like that will put such an unfair burdan on wemon. If i got prg right now George left me and "opted" out of caring for the child me and the child would be screwd we would be homeless poor and have nothing litteraly. The system does not work correctly but its better then nothing

 

[7starmantis]

True, but flip that around. If your husband wanted the child nad you didn't you could "opt out" without his consent.

7sm

 

[Don Roley]

Well, of course the idea is that the responsibility isn't for the choice to have or not have an abortion.

The responsibility is for the choice to have or not have sexual relations. A choice I gladly make as often as possible.

I too, make that choice as often as possible. :ultracool

But both the female and the male make the choice to get veritical. Once there, only the female has the right to make a choice to bring a child to term if there are problems. She has the choice, but the man has the responsibility for years of support for that choice.

Going onto what Technopunk wrote,

Meanwhile, she has a nice office job, according to someone I knew who worked with her makes GOOD money, and is re-married to another Guy... they are doing just fine.

And before you give the "You play you pay" argument... This is his EX WIFE, who is his EX WIFE because he came home and caught her in bed with the Neighbor... SHE Played while he worked to Pay.

This is a good example of a difference in the way men and women are treated under the law. Things like this should be on a case by case basis. The spouse that causes the marriage break up may be a better parent- but somehow I don't think so. Legally you are not supposed to favor one sex over another as a basis of the law. Yet society as a whole seems to think that women are better single parents and make less money. The fact is that I do believe this is true in the majority of cases, but the courts should be treating people as indivicuals and not statistics.

 

[BrandiJo]

True, but flip that around. If your husband wanted the child nad you didn't you could "opt out" without his consent.

7sm

see and i think thats wrong too, i think if he where to want the child raise the child and then get finacial support for me then he should have his way and i couldnt opt out via abortion or adoption

 

[Don Roley]

see and i think thats wrong too, i think if he where to want the child raise the child and then get finacial support for me then he should have his way and i couldnt opt out via abortion or adoption

Ok you are being consistant and I agree with much of what you write.

But the law is that only you can make that call. So what do we do with that as the reality?

 

[rutherford]

I too, make that choice as often as possible. :ultracool

But both the female and the male make the choice to get veritical.

Vertical? Don, how did you know that was a favorite of mine? :supcool:

Ok. I'm forced to agree with a lot of your points, and especially that post-birth both sexes should be treated equally. So I didn't bother quoting them. I think it's a good discussion to have, although I question the value of starting a court case to have the discussion.

How do you get around (or make equal) the fact that it is the woman's body? From the beginning, biology makes the sexes different. It's the woman who has to go through 9 months of pregnancy. It's the woman who takes the serious health risks and permanent changes to her body associated with pregnancy. It's the woman who has to go through the birth process.

Why should they be equal, if biology didn't make them so? Can we / should we assign a dollar amount to that greater amount of responsibility and risk?

 

[BrandiJo]

Ok you are being consistant and I agree with much of what you write.

But the law is that only you can make that call. So what do we do with that as the reality?

yes like i said in my first post hte system needs alot of work, how it should be and how it is often go head to head. It is sad that i can chose to have an abtion or place a child up for adoption when the father can provide a perfectly good home for it and he cant stop it in any way. But i do see how that can protect the female involved if the father of the child happens to be a rapest or in a case of molestation

what we do im not sure... i hope im never in a place where i would have to decide for myself

 

[Phoenix44]

As to custody....in NY, you have to be a complete hag to lose it, and the father a certified prince to gain it.
You want visitation? Get a lawyer.
You want custody? Win the lottery and get a lawyer.
She gets one for free. You get to pay for one.

Oh my god! My divorce lawyer cost me $20,000!!! And you mean I was entitled to one FREE???

Sorry, that's just not true.

 

[7starmantis]

see and i think thats wrong too, i think if he where to want the child raise the child and then get finacial support for me then he should have his way and i couldnt opt out via abortion or adoption

Yes but most supporters of abortion do not believe a women should be made to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want. And I have to agree with the idea that its not a great idea as far as the welfare of the child is conserned.

7sm

 

[BrandiJo]

Yes but most supporters of abortion do not believe a women should be made to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want. And I have to agree with the idea that its not a great idea as far as the welfare of the child is conserned.

7sm

that is true, she would be more likly to harm or self or take things to harm the child, but at the same time it took two to make the baby (and most of the time an at one time or other happy two) so both (in most cases not rape/incest/molestation) the two peoples involved should have a equall say

 

[7starmantis]

that is true, she would be more likly to harm or self or take things to harm the child, but at the same time it took two to make the baby (and most of the time an at one time or other happy two) so both (in most cases not rape/incest/molestation) the two peoples involved should have a equall say

I agree completely. There are just those who support a persons right (male or female) to decide not to have the baby. In that case whose "say" counts more?

7sm

 

[BrandiJo]

i guess thats where we run in to a mess, because i belive noones say should count more, but as it stands right now the famale has aboslute power over her body ....and im totaly glad for that i would hate to lose power over my own body and my choices regarding it. i guess i would like men to have their cake but I get to eat it (ie they get to keep a baby if they want it but i get to keep totaly control of my body ...even in pregnancy issues)

I think females have fought hard to get out of the role that we are property and that we can think and do and say things for our selfs, this is just a consaqunce of that i guess, i dunno im really stuck on telling you a good answer for how it should be rather not how it should be cus idealy no child would ever be unwanted but how it can be fair for both people

 

[Cryozombie]

Oh my god! My divorce lawyer cost me $20,000!!! And you mean I was entitled to one FREE???

Sorry, that's just not true.

Well... I would have to assume that comes from the fact you could afford one that cost so much.

My roommates ex-wife got hers Pro-bono, although he couldnt find a free one willing to help him.

MY divorce lawyer (and I had no kids Thank God) only cost me $700.00, and got me everything I wanted... So I have to guess that your experience and the amount you paid isnt "typical" unless its within your means.

After all, a Couple kids workin at Taco Bell wouldnt be able to hire anyone quite so... pricey.