Changing or Developing your own Art.....

[Goldendragon7]

GD7...

When I do teach, I teach an amalgamation of Kenpo (& a couple offshoots), Japanese Judo & Jujutsu, BJJ, JKD modified kick-boxing, and Thai. I don't claim it as my invention, or as anything new. In fact, I'll make it a point to say, "this is from AK"...or..."this is from Judo", etc.
Dave

From what you state, you are being honest and truthful not trying to take credit from someone else's works and giving credit where credit is due.

I haven't magically conferred a new rank on myself (although Dr. Dave, Super-Master does have a unique ring to it), nor do I claim to be the fountainhead of all knowledge from which this information sprung. Just the source for this class, citing references as I go (old habit from too many research papers).
Dave

Again, commendable and not what I'm talking about.

Am I, by not being a purist, one of the reprehensible founders, or merely someone sharing what he's learned along the way, to the best of his limited ability to recall it? (a diminished capacity to which I also frequently admit to students).
Dave

From what you state...... you are safe......LOL expanding and coming up with new ideas or drills is what we are suppose to do. Please continue along your path and enrich the Art.

I'm not saying this to be antagonistic, btw. Just wondering if I managed to become one of "them" when I wasn't looking.
Dave

LOL, well, one of "them" on which side of the coin......LOL if you are talking about those that mislead folks ........ I would say NO, you blew it...... we can crack crab together.

:asian:

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Grazie. One must remain concerned about such things, yes?

 

[pete]

When I do teach, I teach an amalgamation of Kenpo (& a couple offshoots), Japanese Judo & Jujutsu, BJJ, JKD modified kick-boxing, and Thai. I don't claim it as my invention, or as anythig new. In fact, I'll make it a point to say, "this is from AK"...or..."this is from Judo", etc. - Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

looks like you've earned your spot on the continuum~

 

[Goldendragon7]

Grazie. One must remain concerned about such things, yes?

I guess..... If such things concern you... :idunno:

 

[OC Kid]

Ok now I have a question, along the lines of this thread.
I was orginally ranked in a Japanese system. But shortly after that I moved 3 states away. I started traning in kempo (epak and tracys at the same time) not necessarily to get a rank but I loved the training and I liked to fight tournments and kickboxing. I also attended the basics classes and learned the basics. but I never really learned the forms ect. I always belonged to the japanese association.

So now Im teaching M/A, I use the japanese basics along with the kempo and the japanese forms, my self defense is based on kempo but no set techniques but simular movements ( I really like the power and focus of them) and due to changes in the japanese association, My instructor and the master retireing along with a lot of the guys I came up through the ranks with and the new master of the system I dont really care for ( call it a lack of respect for him) and so basically there all new people who I dont really know and I dont live near them Im 3 states away. I joined a loose association made of people of different arts who are local and have recongnized me and I have trained with in one of the kempo schools so they know me and my ability.

So am I developing my own art?

Am I dissing my Instructor?

Is this system Im teaching considered MMA (I also incorporate Muay Thai training)?

Is my linage in tack meaning would I be considered a legitimate school because I broke away but I can trace my history to my instructors ?

Though rather than calling it after the "japanese system name or OC Kids kempo" Im choosing to call it Christian Martial Arts Academy something to that effect. Would I be considered a Mc Dojo if I opened up my own school?

just curious.

 

[Michael Billings]

Definitly NOT a McDojo based on what you teach. That is more a business model based on maximizing, to the point of using and abusing your students, while the product being turned out is not so good. (my definition only)

The rest is up to you. The name has nothing to do with it, it sounds like you are giving credit to your instructors ... that is good. It is OK to disaffiliate due to whatever reason, with an association, that does not mean you are creating your own ART, you can even start your own organization without claiming to be founding a "new system".

So long as you are honest in your approach, credit the Kenpo with being Kenpo, distinguish the Kickboxing as coming from Muay Thai, etc., there is no dishonesty in terms of what you are offering, so it depends on how you package and market yourself, and you have just told us what you are doing. You may be combining things from Japanese, Thai, American or Chinese Kenpo ... but to me, this does not make a new system. Rather you are offering your students the opportunity to train with an instructor who is well rounded in several Arts. That is more honest than saying "I created THIS ... and THIS IS GOOD!".

I teach Kenpo, but that does not mean I do not teach some kickboxing drills on the bag, or some lock-flow from Larry Hartsel, or some pressure point application from SL-4 or Shen Chuan. I still am a Kenpo-Man and everything else stems from that base, or is part of Kenpo that I had just not been exposed to. I learn something at a seminar I had never seen as part of Kenpo, and was pressure point or akijitsu related, then I hear Mr. Sepulveda talk about Mr. Parker trying the same thing on him.

Keep it honest, keep it real and give credit where credit is due.
-Michael

 

[pete]

So now Im teaching M/A, I use the japanese basics along with the kempo and the japanese forms, my self defense is based on kempo but no set techniques but simular movements -OC Kid

EP would be proud... its sunds just like what he did~

 

[Brother John]

To place themselves on the same level as these proven Individuals is just plain wrong. Give credit where credit is due, at least say that this is your "version" of a system based upon XYZ's work.

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After thinking about it, I'd say that this is the central issue in my eyes.
I'd have to think that anyone who didn't give credit to their instructor(s) for what was given to them would pretty much be schmucks with a real character deficit.

As Mr. Mills wrote in the AKKI yellow belt manual, "When you drink the water, remember the spring from which it came."
When I think of the veneration with which Mr. Mills speaks of his own instructor and mentor, it humbles me. I'd bet he'd agree with you as well.

Your Brother
John

 

[Goldendragon7]

I'd have to think that anyone who didn't give credit to their instructor(s) for what was given to them would pretty much be schmucks with a real character deficit.

Yep!

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I have created my own art: It is called To-Fu. It contains absolutely no meat.

 

[jeffkyle]

I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I have created my own art: It is called To-Fu. It contains absolutely no meat.

Would that be vegetable MA? Or vegatarian MA?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

It is a soft style. Quite jiggly in fact. %-}

 

[OC Kid]

Definitly NOT a McDojo based on what you teach. That is more a business model based on maximizing, to the point of using and abusing your students, while the product being turned out is not so good. (my definition only)

The rest is up to you. The name has nothing to do with it, it sounds like you are giving credit to your instructors ... that is good. It is OK to disaffiliate due to whatever reason, with an association, that does not mean you are creating your own ART, you can even start your own organization without claiming to be founding a "new system".

So long as you are honest in your approach, credit the Kenpo with being Kenpo, distinguish the Kickboxing as coming from Muay Thai, etc., there is no dishonesty in terms of what you are offering, so it depends on how you package and market yourself, and you have just told us what you are doing. You may be combining things from Japanese, Thai, American or Chinese Kenpo ... but to me, this does not make a new system. Rather you are offering your students the opportunity to train with an instructor who is well rounded in several Arts. That is more honest than saying "I created THIS ... and THIS IS GOOD!".

I teach Kenpo, but that does not mean I do not teach some kickboxing drills on the bag, or some lock-flow from Larry Hartsel, or some pressure point application from SL-4 or Shen Chuan. I still am a Kenpo-Man and everything else stems from that base, or is part of Kenpo that I had just not been exposed to. I learn something at a seminar I had never seen as part of Kenpo, and was pressure point or akijitsu related, then I hear Mr. Sepulveda talk about Mr. Parker trying the same thing on him.

Keep it honest, keep it real and give credit where credit is due.
-Michael

Thank you Mike and Thank you also Pete. That is kind of what I was thinking. But I needed to hear a unbiased opinion. I was told the same thing from M/A freinds but its nice to get it reinforced here.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Thank you Mike and Thank you also Pete. That is kind of what I was thinking. But I needed to hear a unbiased opinion. I was told the same thing from M/A freinds but its nice to get it reinforced here.

I like the premise...you may want to research the name, particularly in your demographic region. I remember a CMAA offering association memberships in the back of Black Belt, like, 20 years ago? Also, in your area, there have been a couple of christian kenpoka who have started AK or MMA training centers. Dave Poole (sp?) started one out of Calvary way back, and Chris Romero also did a bit later. Don't know the extent to which they're still active, but I'd bet a dime and a donut Mr. White does. Anyways, it's worth the asking.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

 

[OC Kid]

Yea I know Chris very well He started the Thunder Center. It was a very good place for training. He was a very good instructor. He is now doing BJJ and has for quite a while. I think Dave is still teaching at Calvary in Costa Mesa. I also trained with Mr White. I will stop by his school this Sat. I still work out with him on the weekends. Right now however Im starting a summer program at the local community center for disadvantaged children. It will be a while before I get this thing going and it will be out of State. probably Washington St.