American Kenpo and Hawaiian Kempo ?

[Doc]

KenpoJoe stated: In regards to your opinion of the tracy formulization [sp] of the material that was taught to them by Mr. Parker, I would say that your comment has some merit. the various techniques that the tracys teach are many times nothing more than simple variations on a common technique, where by only changing a single hand strike they now count it a an entirely new technique!

I say: Boy, you're not kidd'n! Right on the money. I had a black belt come to me from Tracy's back in the 90's. He was looking for a nidan. He told me of all these tecniques he had. When I had him perform them in a private, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Like KenpoJoe said, he would simply change the initial strike, say a horizontal fist to a vertical fist to a palm heel to a leopard's paw, etc. counting each simple change a different technique!

That was a result of Al Tracy's propaganda claim that Parker had "stripped" the system and that "He" offered more than 600 techniques. Of course counting every small variable as a singular technique could get you into the thousands. While there was some truth to the "material left out" claim, Al was even more guilty in his simplistic super commercial approach. Of course as a result, he became the most successful in sheer number of schools at the time.

 

[KenpoDave]

KenpoJoe stated: In regards to your opinion of the tracy formulization [sp] of the material that was taught to them by Mr. Parker, I would say that your comment has some merit. the various techniques that the tracys teach are many times nothing more than simple variations on a common technique, where by only changing a single hand strike they now count it a an entirely new technique!

I say: Boy, you're not kidd'n! Right on the money. I had a black belt come to me from Tracy's back in the 90's. He was looking for a nidan. He told me of all these tecniques he had. When I had him perform them in a private, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Like KenpoJoe said, he would simply change the initial strike, say a horizontal fist to a vertical fist to a palm heel to a leopard's paw, etc. counting each simple change a different technique!

Interesting. Most of us in the Tracy System consider them just that, variations of the same technique. They are often given separate names in order to distinguish them within the curriculum.

Typically, though, people who go outside the system looking for rank are those who wouldn't put in the time within the system and are looking for an easy way. I don't judge EPAKK by the EPAKK students that have come to me after quitting their old schools. It wouldn't be fair to judge the system by those who quit it.

 

[Karazenpo]

Interesting. Most of us in the Tracy System consider them just that, variations of the same technique. They are often given separate names in order to distinguish them within the curriculum.

Typically, though, people who go outside the system looking for rank are those who wouldn't put in the time within the system and are looking for an easy way. I don't judge EPAKK by the EPAKK students that have come to me after quitting their old schools. It wouldn't be fair to judge the system by those who quit it.

I understand what you're saying Dave and agree. This was, however, my first contact with anyone from the Tracy system back then. After a lesson or two he asked for his nidan! Can you believe that? To be perfectly honest, I wasn't comfortable at all with his shodan. This is by far no knock at all to the Tracy system of schools, for believe me, I know there are good and bad in all chains. He produced a certificate for shodan from a Tracy 'break away' school that didn't last too long so who knows what their 'quality control' was. Anyway, he pushed the issue of his nidan and I had to outright tell him that I was uncomfortable with his shodan. I knew the guy a little and didn't want to hurt his feelings but he left me no choice in his persistance. To be honest, I had purple and blue belts who could run circles around him. This is not meant to 'toot my own horn' but I'm just expressing how poorly trained he was. Needless to say, he quit. About 6 months later my wife sees him at a tournament sporting a 'nidan' ranking. Go figure..........

 

[Seig]

I'm a little more brutal. Anyone that asks me for rank is told no.

As I recently told a group of my students, I don't give rank, you have to take it.

 

[DavidCC]

What happened to Prof. Cerio's tapes after he passed? I would be very interested in seeing that old material...


and at our school, asking for a promotion is the best way to prevent one from happening.

 

[Karazenpo]

I'm a little more brutal. Anyone that asks me for rank is told no.

As I recently told a group of my students, I don't give rank, you have to take it.

Oh, he was most definitely told NO but at first I just tried to let him down more easily because I knew him and got along with him. Some of us 'old timers' mellow a little bit with age when it comes to diplomacy. Years ago I probably would have told him immediately: " There's the door and Main St. goes east and west'! (a line I did use in the past,lol)

 

[Karazenpo]

What happened to Prof. Cerio's tapes after he passed? I would be very interested in seeing that old material...


and at our school, asking for a promotion is the best way to prevent one from happening.

Yeah Dave, our policy (written) not to ever ask when you're going up for rank or ask to go up for rank period and that includes the parents. For example (with parents who ask): I could have already decided to put their kid up for rank. Then they ask me. Now, I'm put in the position of delaying that student's promotion due to the fact it would give the appearance of the parents 'influencing' or worse 'controlling' the ranking system. This is all explained at the outset but you seem to always get one, lol.

Dave, I'll have to ask Hanshi Craig Seavey what happened to the tapes Professor Cerio had. I think his brother Frank had custody of them but Frank recently passed away. I'll check.