Can this be real?

[Xue Sheng]

Really what is fake ? .any links to the study

studied taiji in Beijing

The rabbit hole is called credentials

Dr Yang Jwing Ming, has written a number of books concerning Qi...
Are you using him as an authority on what has yet to be validated by western science, " 氣 (Qi) "

What does the Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine say on QI projection

A little history that some might find interesting

" Bear in mind that Ao and M Yao were separated by a dining table at this point. M Yao lifted his hand and made a very small fa li motion towards Ao’s face.

Ao felt as if a large mass of paper had hit his forehead, it scared him witless. Have you ever come across this ability?"

You like to ask unrelated questions in order to get a rise out of folks I see.....

You claim to have read some of Dr Yang's books, he is pretty clear about his credentials and his history

Already told you what Beijing university of Traditional Chinese medicine said about Qi, not going to repeat it

And I will not give you the argument you seem to be looking for....... you want room 12A, next door.

 

[skribs]

I've startled people with a well-timed yell. Technically got a few "no-touch knockdowns" because their startle response was to backpedal and slip. So the video is technically possible without a compliant partner. Maybe they were startled. Maybe they were high.

 

[Holmejr]

Windwalker, is that you in this clip?

I just got this clip from another MA forum and I have no idea who is in this video. I just want to discuss whether this is real or not which has nothing to do with who is in the clip.

If this is real, I have just wasted all my life and train the wrong thing. I always want to be able to do this since I was 5.

When someone told me that her teacher could stand on top of a well, punched down into the well, and made water to jump out of the well, I didn't believe that was possible. Believe me, if this is possible, I want to learn how to do it too.


View attachment 29622

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Isn’t that the same well that was in the movie “the ring”?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Maybe they were startled. Maybe they were high.

This is why I ask whether this can be done on dead object (none human). Or can this be done on someone who's

- eyes are closed?
- back is facing you?

 

[windwalker099]

When someone told me that her teacher could stand on top of a well, punched down into the well, and made water to jump out of the well, I didn't believe that was possible. Believe me, if this is possible, I want to learn how to do it too.

Many things are possible given the time and training to do it..


I learned this at one time something called burning hand...
one of whats considered an external internal practice of Tibetan white crane.

At one time, I could slap a US phone book,,,"very thick book" and leave a hand print on a persons back or chest...Using it sparring it was more or less a fight stopper.....

Took a lot of hand conditioning and soaking in Dit Da Jow,,,Iron hitting wine....although being young and not having access to it...I still trained it anyway. "not advisable"

Mike my teacher outlines some of his experience with it..

"The force of qi, an integral feature of the burning hand, is one of those things you need to experience in order to really get the idea. You can watch a gongfu master send a student sailing through the air, but there is a part of you that figures it’s either a trick, or there is an explanation that isn’t going to boil down some mysterious, unexplained force. And yet…"

 

[windwalker099]

You like to ask unrelated questions in order to get a rise out of folks I see.....

You claim to have read some of Dr Yang's books, he is pretty clear about his credentials and his history

Already told you what Beijing university of Traditional Chinese medicine said about Qi, not going to repeat it

And I will not give you the argument you seem to be looking for....... you want room 12A, next door.

not an argument,,, a link to what you said they said...find it strange...

Not a claim of reading his books, have..
He has an interesting history....you related an interesting story..

My point was is that many of these teachers noted in their fields working on something that western science has yet to validate seem to place limits on what they themselves cannot do working with the same concepts that according to western science has not been proven.. "yet".

KFW mentioned Brenden Lai,

Studied with Brenden Lai, a noted 7* teacher
He also believed in the internal aspects of his practice.
knew iron palm..
But didn't according to him feel it was necessary to pass some on some of the training in this day and age..

Other teaches like

Al Novak

Specialized an iron palm, able to break the center brick out of a stack of three....
Very nice guy,,,quite skilled

Many things one can learn in life, should they really be interested ..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I could slap a US phone book,,,"very thick book" and leave a hand print on a persons back or chest...Using it sparring it was more or less a fight stopper.....

I do believe this is possible. Even today, if I grab on my opponent's upper arm, I can leave a black mark on his inside upper arm.

 

[Xue Sheng]

not an argument,,, a link to what you said they said...find it strange...

Not a claim of reading his books, have..
He has an interesting history....you related an interesting story..

My point was is that many of these teachers noted in their fields working on something that western science has yet to validate seem to place limits on what day themselves cannot do working with the same concepts.

Have studied with Brenden Lai, a noted 7* teacher mentioned by JW...
He also believed in the internal aspects of his practice.

But didn't according to him feel it was necessary to pass some on some of the training in this day and age..

Other teaches like

Al Novak

Specialized an iron palm, able to break the center brick out of a stack of three....

Many things one can learn in life, should they really be interested ..

And my wife is a Beijingren that graduated at the top of her class in Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine and is a practicing OMD and PhD from that university, but she was acting head of the acupuncture on the government side of Beijing hospital (Mao's hospital) when she left China for the USA, where she still is a practicing TCM doctor. And yes, Ive been to Beijing, tried to train taiji and the gentleman my sister-in-law found was a self proclaimed expert, until he asked her my background and found out I was in the Tung Ying Chieh lineage...all of a sudden he did not know that much....

Dr Yang is Taiwanese and it is where he learned the things he teaches. He went to school in the USA for engineering

My Taijiquan shifu is from China and was a student of Tung Ying Chieh as well as taught Taijiquan with Tung Hu Ling in Thailand...he is a western doctor here, where he went to college in the USA...he too has serious doubts about qi projection...

I've studied with a few others as well and I am not going into my resume.... now you have nice day

 

[windwalker099]

I do believe this is possible. Even today, if I grab on my opponent's upper arm, I can leave a black mark on his inside upper arm.

This force, would completely numb what ever part of the body it hit.. notably the forearms or legs..

Used to spare a lot of GI's in the military who practiced MA or boxed...
one slap they would drop their arm and start cussing from the pain....

Good skill set to have, took a lot of time to maintain it..once developed....

gave it up some time ago,,,,sometimes feel the practice might have damaged my hands when they
act up once in a while.....Not something to practice unguided with out the jow,,,,,not good

 

[windwalker099]

And my wife is a Beijingren that graduated at the top of her class in Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine and is a practicing OMD and PhD from that university, but she was acting head of the acupuncture on the government side of Beijing hospital (Mao's hospital) when she left China for the USA, where she still is a practicing TCM doctor. And yes, Ive been to Beijing, tried to train taiji and the gentleman my sister-in-law found was a self proclaimed expert, until he asked her my background and found out I was in the Tung Ying Chieh lineage...all of a sudden he did not know that much....

Dr Yang is Taiwanese and it is where he learned the things he teaches. He went to school in the USA for engineering

My Taijiquan shifu is from China and was a student of Tung Ying Chieh as well as taught Taijiquan with Tung Hu Ling in Thailand...he is a western doctor here, where he went to college in the USA...he too has serious doubts about qi projection...

I've studied with a few others as well and I am not going into my resume.... now you have nice day

Cool also studied the Tung style in Hi back in the 80s...
Having a "doubt" is not the same as not real or fake...

your wife should know what is called fa-qi and how its used in a medical setting...

Lived in Taiwan for a short time, there are some teachers there that specialize in this type of study..

Am aware of Dr Yang's back ground...as mentioned find it odd when those working with this comment on something they don't do, or can't do,,while at the same time mentioning the things they can do are the result of "qi"

I could name a couple of other noted teachers who mentioned some of the same things ,
while at the same time using it to do what they can do.

Others using it can't do it or have doubts about it.

until it is...

so no link or study,,,

what you mentioned is anecdotal...
would be interested in reading it..

 

[Xue Sheng]

Cool also studied the Tung style in Hi back in the 80s...
Having a "doubt" is not the same as not real or fake...

your wife should not what is called fa-qi and how its used in a medical setting...

Lived in Taiwan for a short time, there are some teachers there that specialize in this type of study..

I am aware of Dr Yang's back ground...as mentioned find it odd when those working with this comment on something they don't do, or can't do,,while at the same time mentioning the things they can do are the result of "qi"

I could name a couple of other noted teachers who mentioned some of the same things while at the same time using it to do what they can do, feeling its not something that others can do using it...

until it is...

Normally respecting their view points not something I talk much with them about,


so no link or study,,, what you mentioned is anecdotal...

Projecting Qi to knock folks down, IMO is fake......my wife will know nothing of the sort if it is not in Chinese characters....as for fa-qi...it means nothing....especially without tones......You know....we're done here.... I will waste no more time with you...have a nice day

 

[windwalker099]

Projecting Qi to knock folks down, IMO is fake......my wife will know nothing of the sort if it is not in Chinese characters....as for fa-qi...it means nothing....especially without tones......You know....we're done here.... I will waste no more time with you...have a nice day

Cool you too....

you might look this up 气场 - commonly referred to as Qi field or aura might be the closest
western term. Might help to understand what is thought to be part of what the qi affects..

The Qi itself doesn't knock anyone down...a common misconception...


It does affect systems, thought to be the way
the body works from a TCM point of view.

yep,,,have a nice day...

much of what as been asked about here can be found in the link

Healing and the Mind: The Mystery of Chi​

 

[Holmejr]

I want to see it used in UFC fights. Two fighters knocking each other around the octagon yet not physically touching.

Oh wait it’s probably already been done in the WWE

 

[vic]

Mind tricks can move a person without touching. Nothing to do with qi. Derren Brown made a video of a phantom punch. Here is a newer one using similar methods.

 

[jmf552]

This is why I ask whether this can be done on dead object (none human). Or can this be done on someone who's

- eyes are closed?
- back is facing you?

FWIW, I think the video is BS. I think some are some f these are staged and sometimes the reactions are subliminally learned by the student the move is directed at. But I have experienced that sort of thing from a very good Tai Chi instructor I trained with. He was someone who is no stranger to real fights, BTW. I don't think it is as mystical as people make it out to be and it is more subtle than a lot of the demos. The following are my experiences as a third degree Karate' black belt, training with this guy. I also tend to be very skeptical when it comes to this sort of stuff.

The instructor could have a student stand, eyes closed, and the instructor would do moves on that student without touching him. The student would inevitably move in reaction to whatever move he did, even though he could not see the instructor's move or tell what kind of move it was. But the reaction was subtle. No one went flying. Second, the student in the position felt nothing. The student would not even realize he had moved or that the instructor had done anything. But everyone in the room with their eyes open would see it.

Another thing he could do is have you throw a punch at him without letting you know what was supposed to happen or what your reaction was supposed to be. When I did it, I assumed he would have some sort of counter to the punch, as he usually did. But he could make me stop, mid-punch. I didn't feel any "energy," I just had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to stop, like I would feel if you were on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it was psychological, I don't know. But he could make it work on people.

I don't think, and this instructor did not teach, that it was some magical force. But I'm convinced there is an interaction between people that goes beyond touch. It's like you can sense when someone else is in the room with you, even though you have not consciously detected anything through your five senses. An expert can manipulate that awareness.

 

[windwalker099]

was wondering how some might feel about this statement
true or not

"Acupuncture is a pseudoscience; the theories and practices of TCM are not based on scientific knowledge, and it has been characterized as quackery."

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

was wondering how some might feel about this statement
true or not

"Acupuncture is a pseudoscience; the theories and practices of TCM are not based on scientific knowledge, and it has been characterized as quackery."

Except, multiple department of healths for different government have stated that it is effective for certain health issues. There's also scientific studies that have found it to be effective either alone or in conjunction with other treatments, and various hospitals have also announced that through their own research that it is effective.

None of which, to my knowledge, exists for telekinesis via chi.

 

[jmf552]

Except, multiple department of healths for different government have stated that it is effective for certain health issues. There's also scientific studies that have found it to be effective either alone or in conjunction with other treatments, and various hospitals have also announced that through their own research that it is effective.

None of which, to my knowledge, exists for telekinesis via chi.

What you say is true, at the moment. But acupuncture was first documented in 200 BC and archeologists believe it may have been practiced as far back as 2000 BC. But it has only been recognized by government departments of health and scientific researchers relatively recently. Are you trying to say that it was not effective before it was recognized by government agencies? I think the more likely explanation is that it takes government health agencies a long, long time to catch up with treatments that are not supported by big pharma.

For instance, there is a peer reviewed study that is admittedly not conclusive and requires more research, that energy healing (manipulating the body's alleged "energy fields" showed promise in healing shoulder injuries. I don't think we can say that the government and science know everything there is to know about what works and what doesn't.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What you say is true, at the moment. But acupuncture was first documented in 200 BC and archeologists believe it may have been practiced as far back as 2000 BC. But it has only been recognized by government departments of health and scientific researchers relatively recently. Are you trying to say that it was not effective before it was recognized by government agencies? I think the more likely explanation is that it takes government health agencies a long, long time to catch up with treatments that are not supported by big pharma.

For instance, there is a peer reviewed study that is admittedly not conclusive and requires more research, that energy healing (manipulating the body's alleged "energy fields" showed promise in healing shoulder injuries. I don't think we can say that the government and science know everything there is to know about what works and what doesn't.

I didn't say anything about any of that. I said that the statement that it is pseudo-science and quakery is false, and we have proof of this. We do not have any similar proof that people can push others with their mind, despite many people making the claim throughout the years, and it being an incredibly easy thing to test.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Mind tricks can move a person without touching.

What does that mean if you can moe a person but you can't move a dead object?