Victims Frozen in Fear

[seasoned]

I think the issue being presented here is in the people not doing *anything*, and being frozen in fear. Thats a hard thing to get rid of.
And most people arent exactly generally under the umbrella of Military Training.

Or law Enforcement training. But, there are classes out there...........

 

[seasoned]

Or law Enforcement training. But, there are classes out there...........

The way we handled the on set of the fear response was to control our breathing first, because that seems to be the first body response we have, to unknown factors. It wasn't until I took a M.O.A.B (Management of Aggressive Behavior) class years later that things started to make sense.
I'm just throwing this out there, but, a lot of martial arts curriculum involves deep breathing as a means of controlling the flight or fight response.

Just a thought.

 

[MA-Caver]

The killer himself has shown a very good point. That the motion picture/television industry has brainwashed us so completely in thinking this is how we would react or this is how it would go when this horrifying thing or that terrible event is happening. Reality shows it's ugly head and nothing, nothing is like what it was seen on the screen, or as we imagined. Unless of course we've been through it before.
Playing dead, running, charging the gunman, begging/pleading with the gunman ... all of it futile. Even the gunman was surprised that it wasn't like he thought it was and he probably watched a LOT of movies as well.

What is cowardice but the body's wisdom of it's weakness. What is bravery, but the body's wisdom of it's strength. The coward and the hero march together within every man. So to call one man 'coward' and another 'brave' merely serves to indicate the possibilities of their achieving the opposite." ~Master Po

I suspect that those victims froze in spot because they just could NOT believe what was happening. Surrealistic nightmare that was all too real when the bullets struck and killed them. The horrific violence that our various medias have exposed to all of us, we pass it off and make various comments about it. Even when seeing the reality of the horrors of actual war/combat (photos and video) we are numb. When it actually hits us (literally and figuratively) only then do we react... or not react. I'm sure the same thing happened with the victims of the Columbine massacre as well.

72Ronin pointed this out very well... People have a deep expectation of safety, as it is, they have become accustom to an environment where the expectation is that nothing "that" bad will happen. When it does, they have nothing to work with and as Mr Parker pointed out so well, are basically left with nothing.
It makes absolutely no difference what country it happens in. Very few are prepared to fight to the death at a moments notice. Many are conditioned to a way of life where we are not entirely.. independent in this manner. What is your first response upon hearing a gunshot, right now outside your home? Or someone kicking in your back door? Calling the police (an authority) or perhaps calling for your partner or parent or something. Whoever it is, it is someone we have entrusted our safety to at some level.

The point is, what would "you" do? The strangest thoughts go through your head, your brain actually tries to downplay the seriousness of what is happening. You are fighting yourself as much as the situation!

Constant differences between living in a relatively benign way of life and one that is constantly in danger of being killed by a fellow human being can be seen, place to place. Conditioned to violence or non-violence makes a difference.

also from 72Ronin
It is entirely understandable that they froze. The person who got to arms length, my first response is to call that person a hero. No matter how effective or not their actions were. It is almost impossible to "think" yourself into charging at or surprise attacking someone like that while reloading or whatever.
Even when cornered, you would be surprised at what your brain would be advising you! IF you attacked it wouldn't be a conscious action at all, it would be subconscious survival instinct over-riding your thought process, and very often the (too late) last resort.

I would say that this possibility would be higher in a place like Beirut or Afghanistan and other "hot-spots" in the world than it would be in the relatively quiet northern Scandinavian and other European nations, because they're not in a constant war zone and it's not a day to day way of life. So the idea of either running away from a gunman, to get as far away as possible while they're re-loading may be there on a conscious level or charging the gunman to close the distance while they're reloading... has a lot to do with past experiences and training. But again it's no guarantee.
Police officers and a majority of soldiers will stand their ground and fight, because they've been trained and conditioned to. The average citizen has not.

 

[Haakon]

The only thing I like from that article was this: "If declared sane, Breivik could face a maximum 21-year prison sentence or an alternate custody arrangement that would keep him locked up as long as he is considered a menace to society. If found insane, he would be committed to psychiatric care for as long as he's considered ill." In his case, I do like it. But it seems like power easy to abuse. But 21 years for causing that much pain and death, it just set well with me.

Really? 21 years for killing 77 people and wounding hundreds, that sets well with you?? That could have him free at age 53 and living off the Norwiegen people (because who would ever hire him) for the rest of his life, how is that even remotely just? Even Breivik called that a pathetic sentence. Death, or since Norway doesn't have the death penalty, life is the only reasonable sentence for his crimes.

 

[oftheherd1]

Really? 21 years for killing 77 people and wounding hundreds, that sets well with you?? That could have him free at age 53 and living off the Norwiegen people (because who would ever hire him) for the rest of his life, how is that even remotely just? Even Breivik called that a pathetic sentence. Death, or since Norway doesn't have the death penalty, life is the only reasonable sentence for his crimes.

Thanks for catching my typo. I meant to say it doesn't set well with me. That was why I highlighted the alternate custody arrangement. I have a hard time understanding how anyone would want someone who committed those acts to be set free in 21 years. It doesn't work for me. Evidently it does for the citizens of Norway, and if so, that is their business. I dislike some of our sentencing guidelines in the USA for that matter.

Again, thanks for catching that.

 

[lklawson]

Some teenagers were frozen in panic, unable to move even when Breivik ran out of ammunition. He changed clips. They didn't move. He shot them in the head.
"They cannot run. They stand totally still. This is something they never show on TV," Breivik said. "It was very strange."

I'm not a bit surprised. Humans are absolutely crappy at spur of the moment decisions. Most folks are programmed by society to take stock and to over ride the Fight-or-Flight. That's generally a good idea because the vast majority of things in modern society that kick off an adrenalin dump don't require pounding into submission (I'm looking at you, EPEL repo!). Training for "automatic 'good' responses" has always been, and will always be, a cornerstone for overcoming this innately human response.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Cyriacus]

Or law Enforcement training. But, there are classes out there...........

Yeah, I was using a broad brush. Law Enforcement would be good for it as well, and of course, some archetypes of classes would help. But theyd need to be regular classes.

 

[chinto]

two things, I do not have military training, never served. 4F. I am not nor never have been an LEO....

I do however think in terms of tactics and when I hear about things like this happening, I go through the most likely resources and options you would have in that situation! for instance, in a movie or TV show they are being chased by armed thugs in an empty school. what is the first thing you would do? Me, I am pulling the fire alarm as I run by. why, because there is going to be a convention of fire and police there in minutes after I pull it! maybe the thugs take off ,maybe not. Either way I have cut the time I have no assistance way down to minutes!

What might make a good weapon or distraction? dry-chem fire extinguisher! I had to use one once! it was an instant cloud of dense fog. I could not see my hand touching my nose!! and that was in a well lighted room that the trashcan was on fire in!! So dump a few extinguishers down the hall!! its an instant smoke screen equivalent to cover escape and evasion! Now will I ever be in such a situation? I hope and pray not! But if I were I at least have some clue of things that might help!

that might mean that one: do not freeze, two: I get out alive, and three: I might be able to help a few others to get out alive...

 

[Nomad]

Rory Miller talks about the freeze extensively in his books and seminars. The fact is that highly trained and even experienced people can and do freeze all the time. The freeze can take different forms, from the caught in the headlights stare to repeating phrases or actions that are ineffective to having extraneous, stupid thoughts enter your consciousness during crisis moments.

Innoculation to the freeze in one situation doesn't necessarily carry over to another, so it's really impossible to know whether it can be "trained for". Overcoming butterflies while facing an opponent in the sparring ring at a tournament is nothing whatsoever like being shot at by a madman who's intent on killing you and all those around you, for instance.

His suggestion is that you have to recognize that you are in a freeze, then do two conscious actions (eg. yell and hit) to break the freeze. These will be very difficult to do at the time (your lizard brain is convinced that not doing anything hasn't killed you yet, so is a valid strategy).

 

[chinto]

Really? 21 years for killing 77 people and wounding hundreds, that sets well with you?? That could have him free at age 53 and living off the Norwiegen people (because who would ever hire him) for the rest of his life, how is that even remotely just? Even Breivik called that a pathetic sentence. Death, or since Norway doesn't have the death penalty, life is the only reasonable sentence for his crimes.

I think that he is a great argument for a gallows! yep boys and girls a long drop hanging is the way they should have dealt with this idiot.

 

[chinto]

as an EMT you are told that sooner or latter you will have a rescue that is very very hard to deal with. You will want to freeze and well not function. you fall back on your training and do what you can till you can turn the patient over to some one else. But, knowing that actually helps you cope, and keeps you from freezing. You hit it and you go to your self, crap this is one of those !! then you get on with what you know how to do, and have the tools to do.

The more you mentally game what you must do when you face this, and think about ABC and things the less problem you have with functioning when you hit that problem.