Can an underweight man realistically protect himself/fight his way out of a situation?

[SENC-33]

If your means and methods instill confidence in your ability to defend yourself it doesn't really matter if others ridicule it or not.......

 

[lklawson]

KO=Pressure points. They never talk like that in boxing, its just him in the head as hard as you can.

It's not my fault that you are willfully ignorant and in denial. Every boxer knows about "the button." And I've given you one very specific reference (although there are several others) to a boxer writing on the topic of choosing specific target points which are "the most vulnerable part(s) of a boxer's body..." He actually mentions no fewer than six specific body points to target (which are not "just hit him in the head"), one of which he writes that repeated hits there will "sooner or later, bring on a state of paralysis" to the limb which, "the result ... a boxer will often be forced to retire, actually believing that his arm is broken." -The Art of In Fighting, Frank Klaus (Middle-Weight Champion of the World)

And that's on top of other, commonly known, spots such as "the liver shot."

Plugging your ears and going, "nanananananana I can't heaaaar youuuuu nanananananana" doesn't make it cease to exist.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Interesting....you (Kofo) respond to all sorts of posts but never to these questions....

Now before this can move forward you really need to answer my above questions which are

1. Do you have statistics of experience to back this claim up or is this just your opinion?
2. Have you seen and trained at all TMA schools and styles?
3. Do you train MMA to fight and do you fight in an MMA ring?.

And I will also ask

1. Do you train Boxing, or Kick Boxing, or Muay Thai or any other art you feel is usable in a fight
2. If you did train some style you think is traditional, what was that style or styles and how much time did you train it or them individually?

Do you actually train anything?

your silence is an answer and gives me reason to believe your just another Armchair MMAist....happy new year and have a nice day

 

[K-man]

That is of course not the issue. If a person start MA at 20 years old and another starts tennis. After 5 years of training I am sure gonna tell you that the tennis player is gonna be nowhere near world class level in tennis. So why is the MA guy with a black belt and 5 years of training really gonna be any good at all ?

There are differences between tennis and martial arts. Actually they are radically different. But I am totally confused. I teach Krav Maga. Give me a weekend and I will have anyone to a level where they can give a fair account of themselves in a real fight. They don't need to be world class athletes. Why would you question that a person who has trained diligently for five years in a TMA would have sufficient skill to defend them self on the street?

Funny how you guys twist everything to your advantage

Shadow boxing= kihon or kata. Difference of course is that shadow boxing is like how a boxer would move in a real fight.

KO=Pressure points. They never talk like that in boxing, its just him in the head as hard as you can.

As I said, you are using words you don't understand. Kihon means basic, pure and simple. Kata in karate are fighting systems. Do we fight like we drill kata? No, it is a training tool. The detail is in the bunkai. Do we fight like we train bunkai? You betcha!

As for vital points, you obviously have no idea so no point even discussing them.

So what have I twisted to my advantage? I train several reality based martial arts. I don't punch and kick fresh air. I train to fight the same way as many other martial artists train to fight. I like many others here have decades of experience and I am twisting something to my advantage? Priceless!

Then why not just train kickboxing ?

Have you even considered that some people don't want to be kick boxers?

1. Is it enaugh if the attacker is biger stronger and a real bad guy

2. Is there some other training method that will give a higher SD level after 5 y of training

I consider my black belts to be adequately prepared to defend themselves against anyone on the street. And no, I don't believe there is any training that would better prepare people to defend themselves on the street after 5 years training. I'm not saying what I teach is better than what others are teaching, just that it is as good as the best I have seen. Is what I teach the best to compete in UFC? Certainly not. Our training is not directed that way at all.
:asian:

 

[Hyoho]

No, but I tried taking the clothes off a 20 year old than didnt want to.

Lol Kofu you certainly have a lot of what ifs.

Defense is about a calm collected response to a given situation. That's why we do MA.

You treat your opponent as an honoured guest. Watch any good fighter in control of a situation regardless of size and you will see this.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Have you ever tried putting clothes on a 2 year old that doesnt want too ? The strength they develop is just incredible. And it is fueled by anger.

So you got beat up by a 2 year old? :idunno:

 

[frank raud]

Then why not just train kickboxing ?

A good friend of mine got his black belt in Japanese jiu jitsu AFTER his 15 year career as PKA middleweight champion of the world. He is a legend in kickboxing, Jean-Yves Theriault. You do not want to be hit by this man. Yet, he found enough value in this worthless old fashioned art to spend about 6 years training to get his black belt.

 

[Chris Parker]

Well, you seem to be ignoring anything I (or Xue) ask, so I'll deal with the "answers" you are giving... but, should you get a chance, you might find you have some more credibility if you go back and see about answering our questions... such as what training background you actually have, where your ideas come from, and so on...

Answer this then, how much anger would it take for you to attack someone ? Not self defence, but attack. Someone that didnt want to fight you at all. Im betting you must have developed some really strong anger. Have you ever tried putting clothes on a 2 year old that doesnt want too ? The strength they develop is just incredible. And it is fueled by anger.

2 year olds don't want to be dressed, and you think that's the same as anger, or an aggressive attacker? Dealt with both, and no, they're really not related at all.... for one thing, knocking out the child is typically frowned upon.... for another, anger isn't always a factor in attacks... and when it is, it's less likely to be the big, drugged, psycho killer you keep harping on about. So that analogy fails on, well, every single point, really.

But, to answer your question (see how this works?), how much anger would it take for me to attack someone? None at all. Mind you, I'd need a good motivating reason.... it's just that anger isn't that powerful a motivator, nor is it the only, sole, or primary one in most attacks.

That is of course not the issue. If a person start MA at 20 years old and another starts tennis. After 5 years of training I am sure gonna tell you that the tennis player is gonna be nowhere near world class level in tennis. So why is the MA guy with a black belt and 5 years of training really gonna be any good at all ?

Sure, and you can get a degree in 3 years, but it takes 12 to get past high school... you're trying to compare apples and jackhammers. But, again, to answer the question (see, it's just that easy!), a martial artist with 5 years training and a black belt to show for it is going to be good enough to be awarded a black belt in that art. What that particular art teaches is another question, of course... and the idea that a black belt is automatically a devastating killing machine martial arts expert Chuck Norris beating Bruce Lee re-incarnation just shows that you don't even know the first thing about what you're trying to argue against. A black belt is a black belt. They are someone who has achieved the standards of that art to reach that rank. If part of those standards are fighting ability, then it's reasonable to assume that they are "gonna be any good" when it comes down to it. Why would the MA guy with five years of training and a black belt NOT be any good?

Funny how you guys twist everything to your advantage

Shadow boxing= kihon or kata. Difference of course is that shadow boxing is like how a boxer would move in a real fight.

KO=Pressure points. They never talk like that in boxing, its just him in the head as hard as you can.

Shadow boxing does not equal kihon, and it absolutely does not equal kata. Footwork and slipping drills, along with bag work are more in line with kihon... and boxing doesn't have an equivalent of kata. The reason is that kata is designed to teach/instil a particular set of skills/responses, whereas competitive forms (such as boxing) prefer an individually geared approach.

Boxing absolutely talks about targeting as specific points. The fact that you're unaware of that, even after being informed by both Kirk and myself, again shows that you're simply way out of your depth here.

Then why not just train kickboxing ?

Well, for me, because it's highly limiting, single context, and has none of the depth I'm looking for. Plus I have no interest in competition.

If what I trained was, always questioned and even ridiculed, and declining in popularity. I would stop and think, hey it might be something to it.

But... do you even train in anything? Both Xue and I have asked that repeatedly... as I mentioned when I first asked, your profile only states your "Primary Art and Rank" as "real self defence"... but your posts show no real understanding of what real self defence is, let alone anything to do with martial arts. So, one more time... what is your training background, and where have you formed your ideas from?

1. Is it enaugh if the attacker is biger stronger and a real bad guy

2. Is there some other training method that will give a higher SD level after 5 y of training

1: Yes. But such a person is largely a product of an overactive and largely ignorant imagination (combined with a fair bit of fear, commonly... not saying that's the case here, just that it's a common factor).

2: From what I do? Not that I've ever seen. And I (as well as the rest of my organisation) am constantly researching and studying to ensure what I present is the best around. If I find something better, I include it.

If your means and methods instill confidence in your ability to defend yourself it doesn't really matter if others ridicule it or not.......

Sure, to a point. We could go back to the TaeBo women saying that it made them feel more confident... if it came down to it, and they had to rely on Billy Blanks' teachings to music, would it really help? Or would it have given a false confidence which could see them in more trouble by trying something they shouldn't?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Answer this then, how much anger would it take for you to attack someone ? Not self defence, but attack. Someone that didnt want to fight you at all.

I have no idea, because I have never done anything of the sort. However, I will say that I am regularly (far too regularly) involved in confrontations in the ER in which I am the one who doesn't want to fight at all. I'd say beer muscles have far more to do with these confrontations than real anger. I will also say that the sort of "insane psychotic rage" you think is common, simply is not. The very few cases I have seen of "insane psychotic rage" were actually quit easy to deal with simply because someone in that state is incapable of fighting effectively.

Im betting you must have developed some really strong anger. Have you ever tried putting clothes on a 2 year old that doesnt want too ? The strength they develop is just incredible. And it is fueled by anger.

Completely wrong. If a two year old impresses you with their strength, then I would suggest perhaps you need to do a bit of strength building.
Two year olds are not strong. Period. Even when they're throwing a temper tantrum. What they are is squirmy and being held by people who are afraid of hurting them, and unsure how to hold them without hurting them. I've held countless two year old down, not just to get them dressed, but for unpleasant procedures.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If what I trained was, always questioned and even ridiculed, and declining in popularity. I would stop and think, hey it might be something to it.

In your case, I have already seen a number of people question your training, including wondering if you actually have any, and although it has stopped short of ridicule (our TOS requires that, and most posters abide by the TOS), I have to wonder... was this just rhetoric, or will you now "stop and think, hey it might be something to it"?

On the other hand, why should any of us care what the completely ignorant think about our Arts? I suspect that we, as practitioners, know more about the scope and capabilities of those arts than the completely ignorant.

 

[ballen0351]

Wow never thought Id see a 2 year old described as having incredible strength

 

[K-man]

Wow never thought Id see a 2 year old described as having incredible strength

Wasn't that how Superman started?

 

[drewtoby]

Some good discussion going on here. The defenders/attackers mental state deserves more credit than typically given. Compensation, situational awareness, type of training, and quality of training count for a lot too. We all have more strength than we think under an adrenaline rush, knowledge to use the strength only helps. The 2 year old thing is true... if they can strike you in a vital area. Technique can also make up for lack of strength, as I'm learning new punching techniques as well.

A good point brought up is that everyone has their flaws, even instructors. That and weapons/killer mentality will give ANYONE a bad day, no matter their training. They revert back to animalistic nature. Not an easy thing for anyone to deal with.

Transferring schools has been eye opening for me. Glad I made the switch!

 

[Hyoho]

@drewtoby, I'll go with that. I used to run a kindergarden. Kids hiding behind doors to give you uppercuts to vital areas and run away had me in severe pain more than once. Baby eye pokes are tough too.

 

[MJS]

Sounds like you, like so many others got too much respect or fear for your trainer. If your trainer fought a twice his size street criminal, with a killer instinct, then your trainer would lose big time.

So, basically you're saying that all arts are a joke?

 

[MJS]

Realistically, no.

People who decide to train MA are nice middle class people who dont want to fight.

Mean Street people dont bother with MA as they instictively knows it does not work. A street person would train weights and kickboxing,MMA or just depend on his fighting spirit personality.

So we got a nice little middle class guy versus a big mean criminal...

So, you're lumping everyone that trains, into the same group? Hmm...ok. Granted, not everyone has SD as their primary goal, but I wouldn't put everyone into that group. So, the badguy is going to train MMA but not a regular art...because the regular art isn't going to work? LOL...alrighty then.

 

[MJS]

Well, well

Its my opinion that mindset is the most important in self-defence. Not complicated technics, foot position etc.

Its common sense that the biggest guys win when skill set is identical.

Why would anyone do traditional MA if he wanted to fight ? The logical thing would be to start boxing, kickb or MMA. The majority of people who start with traditional MA want to learn self defense. They do not wanna do realistic full contact sparring, if so they would of course join boxing or MMA.

Why doesnt criminals train traditional Martial Arts if it really works magic in a street fight ?

Muscle is of course a major part of self defense, only a professional fighter would stand a chance in a fight against a 2 meter tall Strong man competitor, your average club black belt wouldnt stand a chance. The level of a black belt is not relatively any better than a recreational tennisplayer compared to Rafael Nadal.

MA would probably work wonders towards a traditional drunk. I actually belive that.

However MA got no chance when the oponent is a seasoned, traumatized, ruthless criminal, used to a hard life in and out of prison. Just the look of his muscular body, tatoos and psycotic eyes would make 99% of black belts freeze.

LMFAO!! Are you another one of those MMA nut riders, who frequents this place? I'm going to disagree with....well, all of this. Just an FYI...one of my close friends and teachers, has worked for the Dept. Of Corrections for over 20yrs. He's dealt with all types of seasoned, traumatized, ruthless, big bad meanies, and he's still alive.

 

[MJS]

Any reason you are so full of yourself ? What are you compensating for ? Lack of height ? Childhood bullying ?

Perhaps you should be asking yourself these questions?

You just seem like a very insecure person in all your answers here on martialtalk. Like you really has to put the other person down. You are the only person acting like this towards me. The others might not have agreed with everything but they say where they feel I am right and offer their opinion where they disagree.

Hmm...Chris has been a member of this forum for quite a while, and has quite a bit of knowledge. You however, join up in Dec. '13, and start spewing the same junk that countless others before you have. Perhaps you're getting the replies you are, because of your posts.

 

[MJS]

Oh no! Don't close the thread! I've only just found it and it looks like so much fun.

I reckon this has the potential to go the full 100 pages from what I've read so far.
:lfao:

LOL, why yes, it's very similar to that last train wreck. Shame too, as we almost made it to 100 in that thread! LOL!

 

[drewtoby]

LOL, why yes, it's very similar to that last train wreck. Shame too, as we almost made it to 100 in that thread! LOL!

Did I start an almost 100 page thread? Add that to the old resume...

Back to the MMA vs TMA I guess. MJS brought up a good point. Its either or. Either self defense training works or it does not, regardless of TMA vs MMA. And we all know it works for the most part. No one is invincible, but good training is enough to save your own life.

My whole problem now is the "realistically" part. If you are being mugged, you give your wallet. If being challenged to a fight, you avoid it (if possible). That leaves self defense for mainly against a crazed/multiple crazed attackers (most likely with weapons). Knockout game, rapists, being jumped, ect. A singular (and most likely unarmed guy) vs.

As was brought up before, fighting spirit counts for a lot. With out it, even the best instructors would loose. With it, untrained people would win.

So, back to MJS's comment: for true self defense, does almost everything come down to the fighting spirit, to the extent that training almost becomes a singular factor, such as endurance?