Tell me again about the full-contact TKD sparring, then? Are there ever survivors?
But you're not a black belt.
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ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Same reason there are survivors in boxing despite the fact that it is full contact to the head. If a pro boxer hit me in the head I would probably end up with brain damage but pro boxers dont fight people like me, they fight other pro boxers who train in the sport. Go get joe average from up the road and stick him in a ring with aaron cook and see what happens. Heres some footage of the footy show over here in australia where sam newman, an ex footballer, big bloke and loud mouth, who spent the olympics bagging out on our tkd fighters, had to put his money where his mouth is. Needless to say the little 50kg tkd guy wasnt even trying.
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WTF TKD is more about scoring points with lighting fast, flurries of weak snap kicks. They can throw power kicks, no doubt...just that it's less likely to win competitions. Hands low, stabilizes these flurries of kicks, spinning kicks and any kicks in general.
Punches to the head aren't allowed, but kicks to the head are. But if you put your guard up, WTF TKD will attack your body with a ton of tapping kicks or KO kicks and will probably win by points or TKO or KO. Keeping the hands low is to protect the slow moving torso while banking on faster head movement to avoid high kicks. But more importantly, it's to be able to launch faster, multiple kicks.
No, you watch for pressure, not for punches or kicks.
I spend so much time trying to get people to relax and react rather than think...yammering about hands up is counterproductive. If you really think a tkd competitor can't deal with being punched at, I don't know what to say
Beginners to intermediates should always train with their hands up, but as they gain experience and develop their fighting style, it's ok to lower their hands, depending on what they're looking to achieve...especially counterfighters.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
for a start, "tappy kicks" wont score. They use electronic hogus where you set the power required to score points. They set the level to a point where "weak snap kicks" wont score. Secondly, they keep their hands down for many reasons (I dont do wtf tkd, so there are others who could answer better), but there is no point keeping your hands up protecting your head if punches to the head arent allowed. There are other reasons, but I will leave that to the wtf guys to answer. I dont do wtf tkd, nor do I particularly like the sport side of tkd, but I know there are many misconceptions regarding it. I think most martial artists would get a real shock if they went and trained with good sport tkd guys, I know I did.
It depends. A BJJ White belt can be someone with just 1 day of training or up to 1.5 years of dedicated training...which is 3 days per week, at 1.5 hours per class with usually 30-45 minutes of sparring, every class, at 80-100% power and intensity. When I was a BJJ White belt, even after 5 months of training, it was very easy to submit someone w/no ground skills, including my friend who's a 2nd Dan in TKD and HKD, outweighed me by at least 30 lbs and has had over 50 streetfights and a room full of TKD/HKD trophies. I actually didn't submit him by cranking it until he taps, I just made it seem like he got out of it on his own by letting him go....because I was afraid to piss him off (it was locked in though). It was grappling only, which puts him at a great disadvantage. If it was a full fight, he would have KO'ed me easily....his Boxing was also very good. This was in 2000 or so, when I had very little standup striking training.
In general, a pure BJJ White belt is going to suck at addressing punches and kicks coming at his face, and probably very scared of it. While a pure TKD Black belt is going to suck in the clinch and on the ground. When it comes to fighting... Black belts in TKD and TMA in general....can range anywhere from awesome to pure crap. The only real way to find out is to put safety gear on and go for KO's to find out.
Might i add: They dont use tappy kicks. They look tappy to some people because they dont have a swing to them. Its like how a hook looks more powerful than a straight. The standard round kick is a linear kick, not a circular kick. Because you dont see it travelling to its target until the actual leg extension occurs, it appears to be snappy and speed oriented. The reality is a bit different.
They're tappy compared to what I'm used to. I trained TKD. We try to kick with fast snaps for points.
Kicks to the head are allowed.
I just told you, it stabilizes your base and allows faster kicks, faster spins, etc.
Well I spar with plenty of TKD's and if they're pure TKD w/no Boxing or whatever, I usually wreck them by pressure fighting constantly at close range with punches. In the clinch, they don't know how to address knees, drive, knees, drive. On the ground, it would be worse. But hard to find any pure TKD's nowadays as most people crosstrain MMA. Many in my MMA gym have TKD backgrounds. One guy has 12 years of TKD and does only BJJ now. Another is a 3rd Dan in TKD and was getting whopped by most people his level in Muay Thai. He's a much better fighter now after training only in MT.
Jaeimseu
3rd Black Belt
If you are sparring a real WTF rules player and they are throwing tappy kicks at you, they're either lying about being a real player or they're being nice to you. Those kicks may look tippy tappy on the tv screen, but they aren't that way when they hit you.
The Australian video clip was cute.
For me it's a paper-scissors-rock issue. Getting in close might fail, but basically it's a good strategy. You can jam someone up or cover and take a strike on an arm and get in and be in your own game.
For me it's a paper-scissors-rock issue. Getting in close might fail, but basically it's a good strategy. You can jam someone up or cover and take a strike on an arm and get in and be in your own game.
Well like I said, a Black belt in TKD can range anywhere from awesome to pure crap in a fight or hard sparring. I come from TKD, so I'm pretty sure I understand what's considered good. And I doubt they were being nice to me while I'm lighting them up.
False. I actually learned from my friend who's used to be a street thug w/50+ streetfights and also an accomplished TKD/HKD competitor w/a separate room in his house to showcase all of his TKD trophies. His curriculum was very hybrid as he included Western Boxing and Muay Thai into it and we trained to fight.
Looks like a comedy relief sketch where both sides are acting, badly.
Here's a good example of style vs. style (TKD vs. KB) where both are at the pro level.
The TKD quickly changed his stance and generally, his entire fighting style to KB/MT after seeing how bad he was getting wrecked using only his TKD background. He was still losing, but won a few.
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ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
true Tez, there is a reason they wear head gear in tkd bouts, they certainly dont "tap" the head. Partcularly hook, spin hook etc where they connect with the heel. Ive seen many people knocked into next week with those kicks (and they were wearing head gear
)Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwSJQlfq9wY&feature=plcp
And are you trying to suggest that someone would be just tippie-tapping me while I'm lighting up their face with my punches and their legs with my kicks? He sure got me good then.
They were probably going full on, but mz is too tough to notice.
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