But you're not a black belt.

[Tez3]

I am at odds whenever somone has to use the "title" bouncer.

Being a bouncer does not equate to superior fighting or defense ability

I don't think it was used to denote fighting ability more to show that he's used to taking flak off patrons and NOT responding to them with violence. Door staff get a lot of verbal abuse of people they have to eject from the premises or move on and the ability not to repsond by smacking them, of being able to smile and let it go is an important skill.

 

[Tez3]

What about the MMA fighters and Boxers who have their hands down? Im not talking beginners, either.

The MMA fighters learn very quickly to put their hands up, I've heard many a corner screaming at their fighter to put their hands up. Often hands go down when fatigue sets in. In amateur MMA fights where there are no head shots often fighters don't put their hands up, which can be a bad habit to form if they intend to step up to semi and pro rules.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Yes, they do. But, as I explained in the other post, because they leave their faces open in their matches, so, outside of those matches, when facing people of other disciplines, it develops into a problem. Not sure why I'm specifying this twice, since I already did in my most recent post. I have respect for TKD, but IMO, it is a problem outside of the matches. Not a big one, but it is one.

And to ETIN, if you don't practice against defending against something, you'll have a tougher time defending against it. Not just with TKD and punches, but if you're not used to, say, knives, you'll have trouble defending against them. No matter how well they relax, they will still generally be in trouble.

I, like many other KKW TKD coaches and other striking coaches, am of the opinion that the specific moves are less important than dealing with pressure. That is to say I don't consider it particularly relevant whether your opponent is punching or kicking you.

Your friend with the black belt needs to spar a BJJ white belt so he can be humbled...

Before I say anything I spent all weekend working on De La Riva guard, half guard and deep half. I love BJJ but I don't think that a white belt BJJ player can necessarily take down and submit anyone like a lot of people believe. Plus, it's not a question of fighting prowess here I don't think, it's about being patronizing. Not like "you aren't a black belt so I can beat you" but more like "you aren't a black belt so I don't expect you to understand." In a workplace context, it'd be "you aren't a supervisor so I don't expect you to understand"

 

[ETinCYQX]

These people have other ways of dealing with punches. It may not be with a high guard, but they do know how to deal with punches.

This is exactly what I'm saying. WTF taekwondo player will deal with punches in whatever way presents itself. Maybe a high guard, maybe through head movement, maybe through footwork. It isn't any different from a boxer with their hands down. Not being allowed to punch to the face really isn't important.

 

[Tez3]

I, like many other KKW TKD coaches and other striking coaches, am of the opinion that the specific moves are less important than dealing with pressure. That is to say I don't consider it particularly relevant whether your opponent is punching or kicking you.



Before I say anything I spent all weekend working on De La Riva guard, half guard and deep half. I love BJJ but I don't think that a white belt BJJ player can necessarily take down and submit anyone like a lot of people believe. Plus, it's not a question of fighting prowess here I don't think, it's about being patronizing. Not like "you aren't a black belt so I can beat you" but more like "you aren't a black belt so I don't expect you to understand." In a workplace context, it'd be "you aren't a supervisor so I don't expect you to understand"

Staff do understand very well what supervisors do and say probably better than they do! A better one would be someone who does a different job altogether, ie you're not a doctor/scientist/dentist etc so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Before I say anything I spent all weekend working on De La Riva guard, half guard and deep half. I love BJJ but I don't think that a white belt BJJ player can necessarily take down and submit anyone like a lot of people believe. Plus, it's not a question of fighting prowess here I don't think, it's about being patronizing. Not like "you aren't a black belt so I can beat you" but more like "you aren't a black belt so I don't expect you to understand." In a workplace context, it'd be "you aren't a supervisor so I don't expect you to understand"

Ahh but in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts there are no blackbelts....but a black belt dos not do TCMA so I do not expect you to understand... and at work I am not a supervisor in title....but I do supervise a few people...but I do not expect you to understand.

I look at the whole "I'm a black belt" conversation, that the OP posted, as arrogant and rather elitist and a pretty good sign of someone who is covering up for a lack of understanding themselves... but then I am not a Black belt or a TKD person (anymore) and I do CMA and I have been in MA for what is scary close to 40 years.... so I likely do not understand

 

[lklawson]

What about the MMA fighters and Boxers who have their hands down? Im not talking beginners, either.

Same as in old school, pre-Marquis, Boxing (London Prize Ring and Broughton era). The greater distance enforced by addition of kicking and grappling gives the fighter more time to deal with incoming punches and forces the puncher to use non-standard (for modern boxing) punches such as the lunge punch, the dropstep, and the "superman." MMA fighters are not forced to spend time in "punching range" if they do not want to. They can hang back at kicking range or, if the other fighter wants to push to boxing range, they can clinch in to grappling. MMA fighters ONLY stay in boxing range if both fighters want to.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

These people have other ways of dealing with punches. It may not be with a high guard, but they do know how to deal with punches.

Nah, it's the standard boxing guards. When they're outside of boxing range, they'll let their guard drop because it's safe to do so. When the go to boxing range, up goes the guard unless they're passing through it and going to clinch or grappling.

Modern long range MMA stances look a whole lot like Broughton era boxing stances or even sometimes a variant of LPR stances with a bit more crouch and leg mobility because of the kicks.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Bigdavid5.0]

This weekend some friends of one of my training buddies decided join us for a training session. It was pretty cool but afterwards things got a little tense. One of the guys who was joining us was a black belt in WTF/Olympic style TKD. He claimed to be a real hot shot during his college days and after a couple of beers he began talking smack about other styles and why his style was more superior. One of my training buddies made the point that the problem with WTF/Olympic style TKD was that the fighters dropped their hands. Mr. WTF/Olmpic style TKD did not take that too kindly and began insulting my training buddy's credentials and that his opinions mean nothing and said, his words not mine, "But you're not a black belt."

My buddy is not a black belt in any style. But, he is a bouncer and has been in more than his fair share of street fights. But despite that he realized that if he wanted to stack the deck in his favor, he would have to learn some real skills which is why he trains with us when he can. We all really like this guy but we keep telling him he needs to go a school and get some expert training. Not that we are slouches, but nothing beats learning under a good teacher over time.

My buddy asked Mr. WTF/Olympic style TKD why does having a black belt matter? WTF/Olympic style TKD replied with that if he had a black belt, he would not be so ignorant because he doesn't know what he is talking about. Yes. This was all very stupid and childish. My buddy the bouncer was actually smiling and took no offense but Mr. WTF/Olympic style TKD was really pumped up and started challenging him. We nipped that in the bud real quick and some of us took that guy aside told him to chill out and the friends of my training buddy called it a night and took him home.

What annoys me is the "But you're not a black belt" line. Because I have met black belts who don't deserve it who use this line when they can't explain a technique or do it properly. A lot of professional MMA fighters are not black belts but they know a lot about fighting.

BTW, I am not bagging on WTF/Olympic style TKD. Back in the day, I used to spar with a black belt in WTF TKD. His kicks were nasty. But even he admitted that his style wasn't perfect. Then again what style is?

I believe all styles and systems have some awesome things to learn.One thing to learn is humility.A Black Belt that lacks humility or is prideful gives his school a black eye.Any one of your friends could have dumped him on his head and schooled him.It would have been a good lesson for him

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ahh but in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts there are no blackbelts....but a black belt dos not do TCMA so I do not expect you to understand... and at work I am not a supervisor in title....but I do supervise a few people...but I do not expect you to understand.

I look at the whole "I'm a black belt" conversation, that the OP posted, as arrogant and rather elitist and a pretty good sign of someone who is covering up for a lack of understanding themselves... but then I am not a Black belt or a TKD person (anymore) and I do CMA and I have been in MA for what is scary close to 40 years.... so I likely do not understand

But you do asian kung foo magic, so you must be wise guru :asian:. As a black belt, I officially give you, mr. senior guru-sama, permission to understand.

 

[rickster]

I agree--but they likely have some experience spotting and heading off trouble, and that kind of practical self-defense info. can be more valuable than a specific technique. I always listen to them about how they can tell when trouble is brewing before anyone throws down, and how they manage a crowd to get things back under control. Same with cops. He may not throw a better punch than I do but he's wrestled more people to the ground than I have. I want to hear.

Agree.

Many bouncers I know are not martial artists. Nor really good fighters. They are just big guys as a display. Some do know crowd control. But being a bouncers is not about superior self defense.

BTW, I was a bouncer-turned Night Club Manager...I did not hire bouncers whom thought they can fight...I hired those who knew how to avoid and keep a proper attitude

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ahh but in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts there are no blackbelts....but a black belt dos not do TCMA so I do not expect you to understand... and at work I am not a supervisor in title....but I do supervise a few people...but I do not expect you to understand.

I look at the whole "I'm a black belt" conversation, that the OP posted, as arrogant and rather elitist and a pretty good sign of someone who is covering up for a lack of understanding themselves... but then I am not a Black belt or a TKD person (anymore) and I do CMA and I have been in MA for what is scary close to 40 years.... so I likely do not understand

But Xue, that would mean... no wait, it would mean... no, that can't be right, maybe it means...


Oh hell. I just don't understand!

 

[lklawson]

Seriously, show this wanker the door and let him learn his inevitable life-lesson somewhere else where you don't have legal liability for his injuries.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[arnisador]

BTW, I was a bouncer-turned Night Club Manager...I did not hire bouncers whom thought they can fight...I hired those who knew how to avoid and keep a proper attitude

Full agreement! I know people who avoid martial artists for such type of work as some are just too eager to use kung fu where verbal judo or intimidation-by-superior-numbers would be better responses.

 

[chinto]

all a black belt means is that you have gotten to the point where you are competent in the basics of the system you are studying. Blackbelt is not Hanshi or Kyoshi or even Shihan!

 

[Brother John]

These people are kidding themselves. I've been taught stuff by yellow belts and absolutely by non-martial artists. I always listen.

Someone can not have a Ph.D. in a subject and still teach me something about it!

BINGO!!!

if you can't learn from ANYONE
You've probably not learned much of anything at anytime.
Seeking insight, info... exercising discernment and employing critical thought requires NO rank, and rank without these things... means very little.
Your Brother
John

 

[Cyriacus]

Same as in old school, pre-Marquis, Boxing (London Prize Ring and Broughton era). The greater distance enforced by addition of kicking and grappling gives the fighter more time to deal with incoming punches and forces the puncher to use non-standard (for modern boxing) punches such as the lunge punch, the dropstep, and the "superman." MMA fighters are not forced to spend time in "punching range" if they do not want to. They can hang back at kicking range or, if the other fighter wants to push to boxing range, they can clinch in to grappling. MMA fighters ONLY stay in boxing range if both fighters want to.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I dont know how i missed this when you first posted it. Complete agreement.

 

[Cirdan]

Sounds like the belt was wearing him.

 

[Gentle Fist]

Before I say anything I spent all weekend working on De La Riva guard, half guard and deep half. I love BJJ but I don't think that a white belt BJJ player can necessarily take down and submit anyone like a lot of people believe. Plus, it's not a question of fighting prowess here I don't think, it's about being patronizing. Not like "you aren't a black belt so I can beat you" but more like "you aren't a black belt so I don't expect you to understand." In a workplace context, it'd be "you aren't a supervisor so I don't expect you to understand"

I agree. I was referring more to the combat logic and playfulness. Most BJJ white belts don't have egos and will go hard with anyone to try out their new arsenal. I would dare say that "some" white belts in Judo and BJJ could take (submit/defeat) a TKD black belt who has no grappling game since they would be a fish out of water once they were grabbed and taken to the ground. I saw it first hand a few weeks ago at our club when a cocky 2nd Dan in TKD went with one of our 7 month white belts and got smoked several times... Granted it was his first night (and maybe last) in Judo but he left the dojo with a new demeanor.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I agree. I was referring more to the combat logic and playfulness. Most BJJ white belts don't have egos and will go hard with anyone to try out their new arsenal. I would dare say that "some" white belts in Judo and BJJ could take (submit/defeat) a TKD black belt who has no grappling game since they would be a fish out of water once they were grabbed and taken to the ground. I saw it first hand a few weeks ago at our club when a cocky 2nd Dan in TKD went with one of our 7 month white belts and got smoked several times... Granted it was his first night (and maybe last) in Judo but he left the dojo with a new demeanor.

In all fairness, I have to ask: was this TKD black belt allowed to use full contact strikes during this match?