Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
Thats not a fact, its an opinion. Im not saying that he couldn't, I'd merely like some examples that prove this?
Bruce Lee.. Overrated?
- Thread starter Josh
- Start date
Thats not a fact, its an opinion. Im not saying that he couldn't, I'd merely like some examples that prove this?
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
Burden of proof lies on the person making a claim. If someone is claiming this as fact, then I would like some examples to back it up.
So did you train with him? Then if not, what are using as your basis for this opinion?
And the fact that someone doesn't deify Bruce Lee, doesn't make them a hater. I have an awful lot of respect for Bruce. However I also have an awful lot more respect for logic. So before I go simply accepting any claims regarding, I'd like some facts that back it up, and then decide for myself.
If you can't accept the "word" of his students who are alive and available. Then you should not accept the "word" in your lineage passed to you by someone who was not there. Wheres the proof? I guess all martial arts are fairy tales.
Heres "word" form the "horses mouth" talking about Ed Parker (at 43 seconds) and your Grandmaster Mas (Kyokushin Founder) Oyama (at 1 minute).
Even bigger bullsht than anything on this thread was Mas being able to kill live bulls. Don't suppose you were there??
Don't it feel good when bullsht gets brought up about your lineage?
Heres "word" form the "horses mouth" talking about Ed Parker (at 43 seconds) and your Grandmaster Mas (Kyokushin Founder) Oyama (at 1 minute).
Even bigger bullsht than anything on this thread was Mas being able to kill live bulls. Don't suppose you were there??
Don't it feel good when bullsht gets brought up about your lineage?
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Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
This is a brilliant analogy! I'm going to have to make mental note of this. :asian:
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
I won't argue that the Gracies did popularize Martial Sports to a big degree, but the Martial Arts... beyond sports, is what Lee revolutionized.
:asian:
For one Bruce was not better than all the Masters he was taught by; so, its a moot point.
Sean
You're SGM wasn't so great. Ask you're seniors if this is true (at 43 seconds) about you're "SGM." They "know" it is. The editors tried to bleep it out but your seniors know what he was talking about. I guess it's another moot point.
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Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
You have not pointed to any of those students, nor refererred to them. Instead you got upset because someone asked about evidence. Now read this very carefully - I have not ONCE dismissed Bruce Lee's abilities. I just asked for evidence regarding them. If the claim is made that someone can learn a technique just by seeing it once, then surely from pure curiosity alone, it would be interesting to see evidence of this.
If that offends you, it merely shows your own insecurities.
At 43 seconds, there is just a beep noise. So beep means Ed Parker then?I shall have to remember that for conversations in future.
Second, I have little interest in Mas Oyama. John Bluming would be the furthest back interest in the organisation goes.
Third, thats not evidence. Thats one minute forty of rambling anectdotes, at no point in which is the phrase "Bruce Lee could learn any technique just by looking at it" used.
So, since that was the topic of my inquiry, why not try to answer it rather than getting all offended?
Nope, wasn't there, but never cared about it anyway. Thanks for playing though.
Normally my interest in lineage begins and ends with the current generation. The abilites of the current instructor, abilites of the current student. I've no particular interest in Mas Oyama, and quite frankly find much about him to be suspect.
What I do care about is that the peopletrain with now are good and solid, and train in a tough progressive manner.
So yes, its feels absolutely great when ******** is brought up about lineage, because it simply shows how poor your own priorities are.
Thank you for that
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evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
Yes I am sure he was over rated but like many other martial artist that fell upon fame and the media no matter what medium or source, most were or are over rated too, that however does not mean they are bad martial artists. Think back to the Wuxia novels in China and the kind of stuff they would portray wu shu masters could do. However, many people practiced and practice today the martial arts based on Bruce Lee, his name has become a house hold name. I remember (though I have never practiced JKD) reading the Tao and the techniques in the book and thinking to myself how many people began to train in a certain martial art, or cross train martial arts because of Bruce Lee. Thus, his contributions to the martial arts world have been great.
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
By this I mean, can you point me in the direction of some good articles or sources?
Last Fearner
2nd Black Belt
I think some of the comments on this thread are getting a bit too personal, and insulting of other members organizations and instructors. Perhaps the Moderators would like to take a look at this thread. I don't believe it should be locked, but I believe some need to tone down their comments.
I have been in the Martial Art a long time, and I have heard plenty of "stories" about senior masters, and famous Grandmasters which I am confident were embellished, if not complete fabrications. Every well-known instructor has had false stories spread about them - - some good, and some bad.
In any case, this thread is not about other instructors. It is about the public's perception of Bruce Lee. Some knew him better than others, and some did not know him at all. Many have superficial experiences by watching a few movies, while others have done in-depth research. None of the above have cornered the market on the truth. Many of whom witnessed Bruce Lee in action were not experts or Masters themselves, so it is easy to be impressed. Many who are experts and Masters, did not see much of what Bruce Lee could or could not do - - first-hand, in person.
Was Bruce Lee overrated?? This is a fair question, and the only one that really needs to be addressed here. Was his reputation, and the assessment of his perceived skills inflated above his actual skills, and if so, by how much, in what specific areas of talent, and by whom?
This debate could go on for a long time, but lets keep it polite and respectful of each other's opinions - please.
CM D.J. Eisenhart
"Mentor," not "Moderator!" :ultracool
I have been in the Martial Art a long time, and I have heard plenty of "stories" about senior masters, and famous Grandmasters which I am confident were embellished, if not complete fabrications. Every well-known instructor has had false stories spread about them - - some good, and some bad.
In any case, this thread is not about other instructors. It is about the public's perception of Bruce Lee. Some knew him better than others, and some did not know him at all. Many have superficial experiences by watching a few movies, while others have done in-depth research. None of the above have cornered the market on the truth. Many of whom witnessed Bruce Lee in action were not experts or Masters themselves, so it is easy to be impressed. Many who are experts and Masters, did not see much of what Bruce Lee could or could not do - - first-hand, in person.
Was Bruce Lee overrated?? This is a fair question, and the only one that really needs to be addressed here. Was his reputation, and the assessment of his perceived skills inflated above his actual skills, and if so, by how much, in what specific areas of talent, and by whom?
This debate could go on for a long time, but lets keep it polite and respectful of each other's opinions - please.
CM D.J. Eisenhart
"Mentor," not "Moderator!" :ultracool
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
I think some of the comments on this thread are getting a bit too personal, and insulting of other members organizations and instructors. Perhaps the Moderators would like to take a look at this thread. I don't believe it should be locked, but I believe some need to tone down their comments.
I have been in the Martial Art a long time, and I have heard plenty of "stories" about senior masters, and famous Grandmasters which I am confident were embellished, if not complete fabrications. Every well-known instructor has had false stories spread about them - - some good, and some bad.
In any case, this thread is not about other instructors. It is about the public's perception of Bruce Lee. Some knew him better than others, and some did not know him at all. Many have superficial experiences by watching a few movies, while others have done in-depth research. None of the above have cornered the market on the truth. Many of whom witnessed Bruce Lee in action were not experts or Masters themselves, so it is easy to be impressed. Many who are experts and Masters, did not see much of what Bruce Lee could or could not do - - first-hand, in person.
Was Bruce Lee overrated?? This is a fair question, and the only one that really needs to be addressed here. Was his reputation, and the assessment of his perceived skills inflated above his actual skills, and if so, by how much, in what specific areas of talent, and by whom?
This debate could go on for a long time, but lets keep it polite and respectful of each other's opinions - please.
CM D.J. Eisenhart
"Mentor," not "Moderator!" :ultracool
Agreed. I apolgise to anyone who found my comments offensive or personal, but I dislike it when I make a civil request and it results in an attack.
However, again, apologies to any who find that request offensive.
post #43 and post #53You have not pointed to any of those students, nor refererred to them. Instead you got upset because someone asked about evidence. Now read this very carefully - I have not ONCE dismissed Bruce Lee's abilities. I just asked for evidence regarding them. If the claim is made that someone can learn a technique just by seeing it once, then surely from pure curiosity alone, it would be interesting to see evidence of this.
If that offends you, it merely shows your own insecurities.
At 43 seconds, there is just a beep noise. So beep means Ed Parker then?I shall have to remember that for conversations in future.
Second, I have little interest in Mas Oyama. John Bluming would be the furthest back interest in the organisation goes.
Third, thats not evidence. Thats one minute forty of rambling anectdotes, at no point in which is the phrase "Bruce Lee could learn any technique just by looking at it" used.
So, since that was the topic of my inquiry, why not try to answer it rather than getting all offended?
Nope, wasn't there, but never cared about it anyway. Thanks for playing though.
Normally my interest in lineage begins and ends with the current generation. The abilites of the current instructor, abilites of the current student. I've no particular interest in Mas Oyama, and quite frankly find much about him to be suspect.
What I do care about is that the peopletrain with now are good and solid, and train in a tough progressive manner.
So yes, its feels absolutely great when ******** is brought up about lineage, because it simply shows how poor your own priorities are.
Thank you for that
CORRECTION, Post 48 and 53. The Seniors know and thats why I told the kenpoist to talk to their Seniors because they know about that tape.
This is out of hand but if my uplne is going to be talked trash, irt should be expected that the dirt from other lineages be exposed and they all have dirt.
I take offense when I know some who knew and trauined under Bruce and then this nonsense gets tossed around based solely on the "movies" they've watched. Movies are movies and they most definately are not real, "completey" staged. Get the facts from those who knew him and were there or expect the same to be tossed back.
This is out of hand but if my uplne is going to be talked trash, irt should be expected that the dirt from other lineages be exposed and they all have dirt.
I take offense when I know some who knew and trauined under Bruce and then this nonsense gets tossed around based solely on the "movies" they've watched. Movies are movies and they most definately are not real, "completey" staged. Get the facts from those who knew him and were there or expect the same to be tossed back.
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
At what point is he "talked trash about"? A claim was made regarding his ability to learn a technique off just by seeing it once, I ask about that claim. The result is you throw insults at a lineage I've no real interest in anyway. Would you mind explaining how a question, which asks for sources or further details, counts as "talking trash"?
