Break from your instructor..where do you go?

[StuartA]

You retain the knowledge, and you can belt a person in "your" art, but you can no longer belt in that Organization's or Master's name.

TKD is not a small family Kung-Fu style or a style dictated by old fuedal ways of doing things. I can only really speak about Ch'ang hon TKD, but ALL the orgs are teaching variations of Ch'ang Hon TKD, not their own versions... therefore, which ever org you grade under, you grade Ch'ang Hon TKD eg. Ch'ang Hon TKD under the TAGB, or Ch'ang Hon TKD under the ITF etc. When someone leaves they no longer mention the org (except in their history), they would say I'm a 4thh degree in Ch'ang hon TKD, not ITF Ch'ang Hon TKD or TAGB Ch'ang Hon TKD... EVERY ITF based organisation are teaching the same thing with an Organisational slant on it but they are not the art!

As for examiners, most orgs are done by a) A panel with a Chief instructor heading it OR b) A Chief Instructor.. either way, you can still say you were graded by Master So & So (if you were) as it is true. Very few students are directly training under the Chief Instructor/Master of an org!

You are typically stripped, by them, of that ability.

Again, you learn and grade Ch'ang Hon TKD.. you cannot be stripped of that knowledge or skill, just the standing within the org.. in the old days of fuedal Japan taking away a licence meant something.. but this is not those days - things do not work like that anymore.

In TKD, you are graded on the physical up to 4th Dan

In Ch'ang you grade up to 6th degree as a physical grading. After that they are either a) time served or b) Time served plus promotion of the art .. (something solo instructors rarely get as its organisations that give these!)

You can still say you are TKD, but that you are not belting in say Kukkiwon (SP?) or WTF, or ATA, or ... just in TKD "standard" or TKD "You".

You can state you do KKW TKD as that is the STYLE you learnt, you can also say you do Ch'ang hon TKD, as that is the style you learnt... neither WTF or ITF are styles, they are simply organisations and when soemone leaves them.. why would they state they are still with them?

Those that say they do WTF/ITF TKD are using incorrect terms.. but unfortunatly the terms have become common usage to denote a style of TKD..so people accept & understand them even though thye are actually incorrect and can be confusing for some. Some may even say ITF Style or WTF Style to diffieniate between the style and actually being part of the org.

If that person you belted to say 3rd Dan wanted to go to Kwon events and get recognized as a 3rd Dan and wanted to belt someone at 1st Dan, under Kwon (unless they changed their ways recently) would have to test (and pay said fees) at 1st Dan, 2nd Dan and 3rd Dan to get Kwon. 3rd Dan.

The ITF and WTF are not Kwans.. Oh Do kwan was the Kwan.. it no longer exsists.. most of the other Kwans merged to form the KKW/WTF.. they no longer exsist as kwons anymore. there are a few kwans about and going between a Ch'ang Hon org/a KKW org or a Kwon is similar to changing styles (aka. going from TKD to Wing chun) and hence a grading is enevitable.. but going from one KKW group to another, it is not and it would just be money making to ask them to do so, unless they were exceptionally poor from their former clubs teaching methods!

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

I don't know that it needs to be anybody AGAINST anybody. Each person can make his own choice to do how he feels will be best. The only difficulty I see is if you want to pay your mortgage thru the earnings of your school. If your livlihood depends on the financial success of the school, then you might have difficulty. But if you are simply concerned with teaching quality martial arts, you are content to have a small number of dedicated students and you aren't concerned with making money from it, then you could simplify your methods thru a modified ranking system.

I dont disagree.. as I said previously, when I was just training I felt that way anyway.. even when I started teaching it wasnt a big deal. Circumstances lead to me go 'full time' teaching and then, for better or worse it became more important, but NOT THAT important.. besides, part of teaching is attending events/semiars with other TKD'ers.. virtally all do things by grade (such as whether you`d be a corner judge, centre referee or chief ring judge).. if I stayed at 2nd degree Ill still be sitting corners and ref'ing the occasional bout (forever), as it stands I rarely do that anymore!

All I'm saying is, it is a valid choice that could work, if one chose to do so.

It is a valid choice yes and it could work.. but it could mean you fail in the big sea that is TKD! (Sadly)

Of course any choice has consequences, and you gotta recognize what those consequences are likly to be, and you've got to be comfortable with that.

Oh, believe me.. I run many senerio's through my mind over the years.. its what you gotta do when you run solo.. I think Ive found a decent balance however.

Stuart

 

[dbell]

The ITF and WTF are not Kwans.. Oh Do kwan was the Kwan.. it no longer exsists.. most of the other Kwans merged to form the KKW/WTF.. they no longer exsist as kwons anymore. there are a few kwans about and going between a Ch'ang Hon org/a KKW org or a Kwon is similar to changing styles (aka. going from TKD to Wing chun) and hence a grading is enevitable.. but going from one KKW group to another, it is not and it would just be money making to ask them to do so, unless they were exceptionally poor from their former clubs teaching methods!

Stuart

(I was using Kwon as an abbreviation for Kukkiwon... ) Kwan though translates as Federation/Organization/Group...

 

[StuartA]

(I was using Kwon as an abbreviation for Kukkiwon... ) Kwan though translates as Federation/Organization/Group...

Ah! (MOst say KKW as the abbreviation). Anyways, I dont know much about how the KKW work, though I know they like their certificate fees. I can only really talk about Ch'ang Hon based orgs, as thats my experience.

I thought kwan meant gym or school!

Stuart

 

[dbell]

Ah! (MOst say KKW as the abbreviation). Anyways, I dont know much about how the KKW work, though I know they like their certificate fees. I can only really talk about Ch'ang Hon based orgs, as thats my experience.

I thought kwan meant gym or school!

Stuart

It's closest translation according to GM Pak and my Army Korean Language Instructors at the Persideo is Federation.

I'll remember KKW.

 

[StuartA]

It's closest translation according to GM Pak and my Army Korean Language Instructors at the Persideo is Federation.

I'll remember KKW.

I think that is incorrect. All the original Kwans were called:
Gym Of My Way
Gym of the Blue Wave etc.

Gym (school) = Kwan

I did a google check and found this: http://www.yeonohkwan.com/kwan.html

Regards,

Stuart

Ps. Yes, most will understand KKW beyond the word Kwon to describe the KKW

 

[dbell]

I think that is incorrect. All the original Kwans were called:
Gym Of My Way
Gym of the Blue Wave etc.

Gym (school) = Kwan

I did a google check and found this: http://www.yeonohkwan.com/kwan.html

Regards,

Stuart

Ps. Yes, most will understand KKW beyond the word Kwon to describe the KKW

GM Pak, from Korea until the 60s, and the 5 Korean (Korean Nationals) Instructors I learned Korean from in the early 80s, and with whom I still talk to, pretty much all agree that it more accurately translates to Federation... GM Pak states that the original Kwans were groups of schools following the same martial system, joined together, using the same requirements to enable better learning.

But, that said, I'll go with what ever the world thinks it means....

 

[StuartA]

GM Pak, from Korea until the 60s, and the 5 Korean (Korean Nationals) Instructors I learned Korean from in the early 80s, and with whom I still talk to, pretty much all agree that it more accurately translates to Federation... GM Pak states that the original Kwans were groups of schools following the same martial system, joined together, using the same requirements to enable better learning.

Well, then I can only think their English definition of 'Federation' is wrong! It can also mean 'style', as in schools that follow a particular style, but it has never, AFAIK meant 'Federation' as we know them today (in the TKD world anyway).. still, I could be wrong, I`ll check with some Koreans I know too... cheers.

But, that said, I'll go with what ever the world thinks it means....

Sometimes thats actually the best way, like the description of ITF Taekwondo is actually Ch'ang TKD.. as the ITfFare a group/federation.. not the style, but the majority of TKD people refer to it as such!

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

Kwan is the Korean version of Ryu...

From Wiki:
A Ryū (流, literally "flow", with the derived meaning of "mainstream"), or ryūha (流派, literally "mainstream school (of thought)"), is a Japanese word referring to a school of thought in any discipline. In English, the word is frequently used to refer to schools of Japanese martial art, although it can also be found used in other disciplines (for example Nihonkoryū and Sogetsu-ryū in ikebana, Kanteiryū in calligraphy, etc.).

 

[StuartA]

Found this too:

http://en.wikipedia.org:80/wiki/Kwans

A friend of mine who translate English/Korean said this when asked:

The word kwan comes from the Chinese 館, pronounced 'guan' and meaning house or establishment.It therefore means the physical setting in which martial arts training takes place, but can also figuratively refer to the teachers and members, or clan of martial artists, who follow that particular style of teaching.

Hope that helps,

Stuart