drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
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hanzou originally the concept was this. And train in bjj and cross train with bjj guys really are different things.
Brazilian Martial Arts
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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hanzou originally the concept was this. And train in bjj and cross train with bjj guys really are different things.
It's what we've always known it as, we do 'shrimping' drills and for the kids races to see who can shrimp across the mats the quickest, if you know it by one name there's little need to look for other names. Everyone we train with including Brazilian BJJ instructors always call it that.
If I don't know something I'm more than happy to ask, I believe it's the mature thing to do, one may bolster ones ego with pretending one knows everything but really it's much better to ask isn't it?
It's what we've always known it as, we do 'shrimping' drills and for the kids races to see who can shrimp across the mats the quickest, if you know it by one name there's little need to look for other names. Everyone we train with including Brazilian BJJ instructors always call it that.
If I don't know something I'm more than happy to ask, I believe it's the mature thing to do, one may bolster ones ego with pretending one knows everything but really it's much better to ask isn't it?
Well some blokes do seem to have a perpetual need to bolster the ego
Yes, better to ask and be deemed a fool, than to be the fool answering!
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Unless Google works differently in the uk, a search for "hip escape" would have cleared it right up with explanations, pictures and videos. It's not possible that anyone googled the term and didn't immediately find clear and detailed information.
This whole shrimping vs hip escape thing isn't about confusing terms. It's about one poster taking a petty jab at another. While I agree that asking questions is important, feigning ignorance isn't helpful and it's not mature behavior.
As for the rest, don't we have enough bjj vs the world threads to revive if that's what people want to discuss?
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This whole shrimping vs hip escape thing isn't about confusing terms. It's about one poster taking a petty jab at another. While I agree that asking questions is important, feigning ignorance isn't helpful and it's not mature behavior.
As for the rest, don't we have enough bjj vs the world threads to revive if that's what people want to discuss?
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Folks,
Bjj is only one Brazilian at, and it's merits or necessity in mma is a valid discussion. But off topic in this thread.
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jks9199
Administrator
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Bjj is only one Brazilian at, and it's merits or necessity in mma is a valid discussion. But off topic in this thread.
ATTENTION ALL USERS
PLEASE RETURN TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC
jks9199
Administrator
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My, my, this thread sure has gotten interesting, informative and amusing since Thursday! Glad I dropped back in. Especially while eating shrimp. (really, have a plate right here)
I call everything "grappling". Even though the only "grappling art" I've ever actually trained in is Gracie Jiu-jitsu. Perhaps I've confused people I know, especially my friends. Ah, well, you know what they say, "keep your friends close and your elbows closer."
I call everything "grappling". Even though the only "grappling art" I've ever actually trained in is Gracie Jiu-jitsu. Perhaps I've confused people I know, especially my friends. Ah, well, you know what they say, "keep your friends close and your elbows closer."
- Thread Starter
- #88
The UFC was a bad example. What I meant to say is this, before the UFC the Gracies were challenging all sorts of top level kick boxers and people who specialized in kicking/striking arts. People such as Joe Lewis, Benny Urquidez, ect. and the challenges were being turned down? Why? Because these top level kicker/strikers knew that they didn't train to fight under rules where both striking and grappling was allowed as the Gracies did and so they knew they would lose. The Gracies trained to fight under rules that allowed both striking and grappling whereas these other fighters trained under rules that only allowed striking. Since they didn't train to fight in fights where both striking and grappling was allowed they would lose and they knew it. And so they didn't take on the challenges.
- Thread Starter
- #89
Because Urquidez didn't train to fight against grapplers. Urquidez didn't need to be able to stop a grappler from taking him down because in the fights he would fight nobody would do that since it wouldn't be allowed. Urquidez was a kicker/striker and he fought in fights that were strictly kicking/striking so it wouldn't be necessary for him to be able to stop grapplers.
- Thread Starter
- #91
I agree. I like to discuss Brazilian martial arts and while that definitely includes BJJ and that its a great martial art to discuss, I also like to discuss other Brazilian martial arts such as Capoeira which is a fascinating art all on its own.
- Thread Starter
- #92
How am I misinformed? Why would a kicker/striker need to be able to fight off grapplers if the fights they fight don't allow that?
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Both of these posts are downright ignorant in their choice of examples.
Benny Urquidez has always been a competent grappler, who trained with Gene LeBell and Gokor Chivichyan. The Gracies challenged him, but when they found out he was more than just a kickboxing world champion they backed down. Another version of the story has the Gracies backing out after Urquidez pled poverty, and offered up his belt instead of $100,000...the whole "not trained," thing, though, is a complete canard.
It's hard to believe Joe Lewis ever backed out of a fight with anyone, but I don't know of the Gracies ever challenging him....
- Thread Starter
- #94
Alright I never heard those sides of the stories and I wasn't aware that Benny had a grappling background. The stories about the Gracies challenging Benny and Joe Lewis, my source of information was from the Gracies themselves.
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The original Gracie challenge was for publicity for Gracie Jiu-jitsu. Sure as well worked from a publicity standpoint, nobody ever heard of Gracie Jiu-jitsu thirty years ago.The challenge was open to anyone, not specifically/only for people involved in kicking/striking arts.
The confusion over the challenge towards Joe Lewis is a common one, you're not alone. It was actually a challenge by Helio Gracie to Joe Louis, the boxing champion, back in the mid nineteen forties. Again, it was for publicity.
Royce Gracie challenged Mike Tyson to a no holds barred scrap in 1997, "anytime, anywhere". Again, it was for publicity. Tyson was making upwards of fifteen million bucks a fight at the time, he wasn't about to fight anyone for free. But the publicity actually worked, it was mentioned in the New York Times. (I always wondered how they pulled that off) Tyson had already lost to Holyfield at the time, but Tyson still had the marquee name. Some might say Royce was lucky, Tyson would have bit him like he did to Holyfield in their second fight. But Royce, had already been bitten, right on the ear (just like Holyfield/Tyson2) during his first UFC championship fight with Gordeau.
A lot of the Gracie challenges were the reverse of what most people think. People heard about it and came TO Rorian's school and challenged them. Which they happily accepted right there on the spot. Some of the guys that lost became Gracie students the same day. Jason DeLucia is probably the most notable, he also fought in UFC 1 as an alternate to fill time because all matches were short ones. (real short ones!) He had been a Gracie student for several years at the time.
As for Benny the Jet, there's all kinds of rumors as to what did and didn't happen, what was and wasn't said, I have no knowledge and won't speculate, especially since I'm a fan of both men. But as Elder has already said, The Jet was a student of Judo Gene. He was one hell of a Martial Artist, not just a kickboxer.
Bottom line in the Gracie challenge, at least to my experience with the family, was "do whatever you want, we don't care."
The confusion over the challenge towards Joe Lewis is a common one, you're not alone. It was actually a challenge by Helio Gracie to Joe Louis, the boxing champion, back in the mid nineteen forties. Again, it was for publicity.
Royce Gracie challenged Mike Tyson to a no holds barred scrap in 1997, "anytime, anywhere". Again, it was for publicity. Tyson was making upwards of fifteen million bucks a fight at the time, he wasn't about to fight anyone for free. But the publicity actually worked, it was mentioned in the New York Times. (I always wondered how they pulled that off) Tyson had already lost to Holyfield at the time, but Tyson still had the marquee name. Some might say Royce was lucky, Tyson would have bit him like he did to Holyfield in their second fight. But Royce, had already been bitten, right on the ear (just like Holyfield/Tyson2) during his first UFC championship fight with Gordeau.
A lot of the Gracie challenges were the reverse of what most people think. People heard about it and came TO Rorian's school and challenged them. Which they happily accepted right there on the spot. Some of the guys that lost became Gracie students the same day. Jason DeLucia is probably the most notable, he also fought in UFC 1 as an alternate to fill time because all matches were short ones. (real short ones!) He had been a Gracie student for several years at the time.
As for Benny the Jet, there's all kinds of rumors as to what did and didn't happen, what was and wasn't said, I have no knowledge and won't speculate, especially since I'm a fan of both men. But as Elder has already said, The Jet was a student of Judo Gene. He was one hell of a Martial Artist, not just a kickboxer.
Bottom line in the Gracie challenge, at least to my experience with the family, was "do whatever you want, we don't care."
Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, but BJJ and even Capoera are newcomers as far as truly traditional Brazilian martial arts go. By contrast the guy pictured below is a real Brazilian traditionalist. And with open rules in his own hood, I'd bet on him!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5764935531_d03188cea9.jpg
....or this guy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Achuar_con_cerbatana_(Amazonía_Ecuatoriana).jpg
RTKDCMB
Senior Master
That is just about the worst way to defend against a crescent kick. The only way that will work is if you get in very close to your opponent. If you try to stop a crescent kick with a boxing cover head on you will just loose your head. One thing you are taught in sparring where I come from is that you don't block crescent kicks unless you absolutely have to. The last place you want to be when your opponent is doing a crescent kick is in it's path.
Capoeira uses crescent kicks (keeping it on topic).
That is just about the worst way to defend against a crescent kick. The only way that will work is if you get in very close to your opponent. If you try to stop a crescent kick with a boxing cover head on you will just loose your head. One thing you are taught in sparring where I come from is that you don't block crescent kicks unless you absolutely have to. The last place you want to be when your opponent is doing a crescent kick is in it's path.
Capoeira uses crescent kicks (keeping it on topic).
A properly extended crescent kick with shear that arm right off while clocking you in the head. We teach 2 defenses. Check the chamber if youre quick enough, or get out of the way
LibbyW
Orange Belt
Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, but BJJ and even Capoera are newcomers as far as truly traditional Brazilian martial arts go. By contrast the guy pictured below is a real Brazilian traditionalist. And with open rules in his own hood, I'd bet on him!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5764935531_d03188cea9.jpg
....or this guy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Achuar_con_cerbatana_(Amazonía_Ecuatoriana).jpg
Yikes, picture 2 ... that is the biggest blowgun I've ever seen.
I toured Brazil on holiday and met a few indigenous people who still live tribal lifestyles. I'd probably put my money on any of those guys as well
L
