Brazilian Martial Arts

[Transk53]

@smiller2144 High Intensity Push escape?

 

[drop bear]

If you think submission grapplers aren't cross-training with Bjj guys and vice versa, you're crazy. Hell, I'm learning submission grappling in my Bjj school, and we're not even a competition-heavy school. Grappling is evolving at such a ridiculous rate that everyone is dipping into each others pools. So much so that when you're outside of competition rules, you really can't tell the grappling styles apart.

I am checking to see how much bjj ben askren has. So far not much.

look they are. But ok my coach is a bjj blue belt. And that was basically given to him. Now he trains with bjj guys uses bjj ish techniques. But he couldn't open a bjj school. There are still linage issues.

And i think you can tell the difference if you are pedantic enough to care. Even our Brazilian top team guy when he was teaching us was teaching mma and not bjj. And was adamant that there was a difference.

 

[Hanzou]

I am checking to see how much bjj ben askren has. So far not much.

look they are. But ok my coach is a bjj blue belt. And that was basically given to him. Now he trains with bjj guys uses bjj ish techniques. But he couldn't open a bjj school. There are still linage issues.

Uh, that's cross-training dude.

And i think you can tell the difference if you are pedantic enough to care. Even our Brazilian top team guy when he was teaching us was teaching mma and not bjj. And was adamant that there was a difference.

Well, everyone's welcome to their opinion. However, we're all using the guard, we're all using kesa-gatame/scarf holds, and we're all doing arm bars, leg locks, and chokes. It's just silly to say that someone who is doing submission grappling isn't doing Bjj or vice versa. That's just marketing in order to make people believe you're doing something different or new when in fact we're all just doing a combination of Judo and wrestling.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Unless people understand what you are saying then it doesn't work either as a joke or a statement does it? 'Hip escape' for example what does that mean?

Hip escape is a fundamental ground fighting movement. Smiller2144 was acknowledging that his groundfighting techniques are useless until he actually gets the opponent to the ground.

 

[Tez3]

Hip escape is a fundamental ground fighting movement. Smiller2144 was acknowledging that his groundfighting techniques are useless until he actually gets the opponent to the ground.

I have been doing ground fighting, BJJ and Judo for over 16 years now and haven't come across this term.
I've had a look on Google, we know it as 'shrimping'! not 'hip escape'

 

[Hanzou]

I have been doing ground fighting, BJJ and Judo for over 16 years now and haven't come across this term.

Hip escape is better known as "shrimping".

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[drop bear]

Uh, that's cross-training dude.



Well, everyone's welcome to their opinion. However, we're all using the guard, we're all using kesa-gatame/scarf holds, and we're all doing arm bars, leg locks, and chokes. It's just silly to say that someone who is doing submission grappling isn't doing Bjj or vice versa. That's just marketing in order to make people believe you're doing something different or new when in fact we're all just doing a combination of Judo and wrestling.

Ok cross training in and being a bjj guy is two different things. If you are going to claim bjj. You really need to be legitimately training and grading in it.

Ok lets put it this way. Krav passes guard and uses scarf holds so they are bjjers right?

I really don't think it is a marketing difference rather than it being a fundamental difference in the flavour that you are training in. I really doubt bjj is going to throw its methods out the window to get more in line with the hybrid grappling systems out there.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I have been doing ground fighting, BJJ and Judo for over 16 years now and haven't come across this term.
I've had a look on Google, we know it as 'shrimping'! not 'hip escape'

I've heard it as both. Pretty common either way.

 

[drop bear]

I have been doing ground fighting, BJJ and Judo for over 16 years now and haven't come across this term.
I've had a look on Google, we know it as 'shrimping'! not 'hip escape'

That is interesting because Hip escape is a common term.

 

[drop bear]

But you'd have to be an idiot to go into MMA with no BJJ, seriously.

and raise you sakuraba.

 

[Hanzou]

Ok cross training in and being a bjj guy is two different things. If you are going to claim bjj. You really need to be legitimately training and grading in it.

Ok lets put it this way. Krav passes guard and uses scarf holds so they are bjjers right?

I never said they were "Bjj guys" or Jujitieros, I said that they know, and train in Bjj via cross-training. If I'm cross-training in Karate, I can't sit back and say that I don't know or don't train Karate, I do know it, and I do train in it.

I really don't think it is a marketing difference rather than it being a fundamental difference in the flavour that you are training in. I really doubt bjj is going to throw its methods out the window to get more in line with the hybrid grappling systems out there.

Except we don't throw our methods out the window, we add the new methods to our existing methods, and create something better through that fusion. That's why Bjj and submission grappling in general is so effective; Because we aren't stagnant. We're constantly adapting and learning.

If a catch-wrestler can show me a better way to get a choke, you better believe I'm learning it.

 

[drop bear]

Youve obviouy completely missed the point.
I know if you do it properly you wont get hit, but you can if you don't. I'm simply saying that if a person is skilled enough to kick you in the head fast enough, then theres probebly no chance of escaping it.

interestingly top level wrestlers are seeming to strike more and grapple less in the ufc at the moment.

Might be a bit rules related though.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well, everyone's welcome to their opinion. However, we're all using the guard, we're all using kesa-gatame/scarf holds, and we're all doing arm bars, leg locks, and chokes. It's just silly to say that someone who is doing submission grappling isn't doing Bjj or vice versa. That's just marketing in order to make people believe you're doing something different or new when in fact we're all just doing a combination of Judo and wrestling.

Ok cross training in and being a bjj guy is two different things. If you are going to claim bjj. You really need to be legitimately training and grading in it.

Ok lets put it this way. Krav passes guard and uses scarf holds so they are bjjers right?

I really don't think it is a marketing difference rather than it being a fundamental difference in the flavour that you are training in. I really doubt bjj is going to throw its methods out the window to get more in line with the hybrid grappling systems out there.

Eh, it's a matter of interpretation. Personally, I see Judo, BJJ, Danzan Ryu, Greco-Roman, Catch Wrestling, Sombo, etc, etc as just different facets of a greater whole. In the end, we're all grapplers and we can all learn from each other. I'll take anything that works for me from any grappling style and consider it part of my own art.

That said, those different facets do have their own flavors and lineages and perspectives. If someone trains Greco-Roman, I wouldn't say that makes him a Judoka. If someone trains BJJ, that doesn't make him a Danzan Ryu practitioner.

 

[drop bear]

I never said they were "Bjj guys" or Jujitieros, I said that they know, and train in Bjj via cross-training. If I'm cross-training in Karate, I can't sit back and say that I don't know or don't train Karate, I do know it, and I do train in it.



Except we don't throw our methods out the window, we add the new methods to our existing methods, and create something better through that fusion. That's why Bjj and submission grappling in general is so effective; Because we aren't stagnant. We're constantly adapting and learning.

Ok but we are kind of blurring the point. We are not doing bjj with takedowns. You are not doing wrestling with submissions. There is still a distinct difference between doing bjj and cross training in bjj.

i do cross train with karate guys. But i do not train karate. To claim that i cant just do snappy kicks. I have to learn the system.

I am a bjj absolutely nothing belt. What would give me the legitimacy to claim to be a bjj guy?

 

[Tez3]

I've heard it as both. Pretty common either way.

Where you live I daresay where I live not so much. If the poster had answered the question I asked, it would have been simple.

 

[drop bear]

Eh, it's a matter of interpretation. Personally, I see Judo, BJJ, Danzan Ryu, Greco-Roman, Catch Wrestling, Sombo, etc, etc as just different facets of a greater whole. In the end, we're all grapplers and we can all learn from each other. I'll take anything that works for me from any grappling style and consider it part of my own art.

That said, those different facets do have their own flavors and lineages and perspectives. If someone trains Greco-Roman, I wouldn't say that makes him a Judoka. If someone trains BJJ, that doesn't make him a Danzan Ryu practitioner.

And to a certain degree what works for bjj has a different effect in mma.
Actually lets use bjj and wrestling. You could just walk into one competition as either stylist. But the emphasis would change.

 

[Hanzou]

Eh, it's a matter of interpretation. Personally, I see Judo, BJJ, Danzan Ryu, Greco-Roman, Catch Wrestling, Sombo, etc, etc as just different facets of a greater whole. In the end, we're all grapplers and we can all learn from each other. I'll take anything that works for me from any grappling style and consider it part of my own art.

That said, those different facets do have their own flavors and lineages and perspectives. If someone trains Greco-Roman, I wouldn't say that makes him a Judoka. If someone trains BJJ, that doesn't make him a Danzan Ryu practitioner.

Well yeah, I wouldn't say that a Greco Roman guy is a Judoka. However, if someone is saying that MMA guys or submission grapplers don't know ANY Bjj, i just have to disagree. That's like me saying I don't know any Judo or Catch Wrestling, when I've learned techniques from both, and grappled with both.

 

[drop bear]

Where you live I daresay where I live not so much. If the poster had answered the question I asked, it would have been simple.

I thought you were joking when you asked it.

 

[Transk53]

Hip escape is better known as "shrimping".

EDIT: Beaten.

"Shrimping" One that makes sense. Shrimps go sideways as well.

 

[Hanzou]

Ok but we are kind of blurring the point. We are not doing bjj with takedowns. You are not doing wrestling with submissions. There is still a distinct difference between doing bjj and cross training in bjj.

i do cross train with karate guys. But i do not train karate. To claim that i cant just do snappy kicks. I have to learn the system.

I am a bjj absolutely nothing belt. What would give me the legitimacy to claim to be a bjj guy?

Okay, but I'm not saying you're a Jujitiero. I'm saying that you know some Bjj because of your training.