Blocks are useless, right?

[donald1]

it depends on who you are fighting, block advantages: with blocks punchs and kicks can be seen as door knobs you can grab it or knock it to the side to open up targets and/or pressure points. block disadvantages: however if the opponent is skilled and knows what they are doing it will not matter if you block the move because if they are tough it can still hurt you / no blocking advantages: yet you can slide back or off to the side with the chances they might lose balance and you can from there control the fight. no block disadvantages a lot of the time there could be a follow through(depends on what the combination the opponent uses) personally i like blocks because if you open a target up it can be a quick match

 

[D.Cobb]

I was always taught that it is purely semantics or the nature of the intent behind the movement. That is to say it will be the movement that was taught to a junior as a block, but the way in which I use that movement as part of my self defence determines whether or not it is a block or a strike. This is true for all movements so I kind of subscribe to the theory that a punch is a block is a lock is a throw... :-D

 

[Koshiki]

Since this thread seems mostly to be about defining terms, I'll throw my muddy two cents in!

... Like in fencing a "block" can be a pary, a deflection, where you with angled movement and little effort redirect/deflect the strike away from you ...

A block is a block, a strike is a strike and sometimes (not always) a block is a strike and a strike is a block and a strike : )

I block is, at the very basic, denotation level, something where you use one force to impede the motion of a primary force, thus causing it to NOT impact it's primary target. I would guess that most of us, at our more etymological and philosophical will distuinguish, somewhere in the vicinity of five levels of strike-negation.
1. Strike the Strike. These are the aggressive, smashing "blocks" meant to inflict damage to the opponents strike. I'm thinking of iron monkey type smashy-smashy, as in, "hey, you threw an instep kick at my thigh, so I'll smash it with my knee-cap.
2. Block the Strike. These are, I would say, the truest "blocks" in the dictionary denotation of the term. You just put something in between the target and the incoming strike and hope it mostly stops the impact, for example, covering the side of your head with a folded arm to avoid getting your ear mashed by a hay-maker.
3. Redirect the Strike. These are the strike-negations that make contact, but, rather than trying to stop or diminish the incoming force, they merely stear it away from anything dangerous.
4. Muting the Strike. The negations where you get hit, but you curve around/with the strike so that it glances or is largely absorbed, and doesn't hurt or break as much as it might have.
5. Avoiding the Strike. Slipping punches, jumping back from kicks, ducking grabs, whatever, you just plain get completely out of the way of the strike.

We all use most of these in our play, I would guess. Perhaps the best term is strike-negation, but it sounds a tad clunky to me. It may not fit the denotation, but the connotation of "block" tends to allow for a wider range of admissible techniques, at least among Southern Mainers. Especially to make a point to new students, I will sometimes pointedly refer to an avoidance or muting/rolling as a block. I find it helps. New students often get caught up in blocking EVERYTHING. So, when someone jabs and, as we see all the time, the jab is fully extended a good 18 inches from my head, I'll stand there, motionless and say, "See? There's the block." technically no, it's not a "block" according to Webster or Oxford, but it gets the point across.

Sloppy terminology? Sure, I'm guilty!

 

[Koshiki]

...I kind of subscribe to the theory that a punch is a block is a lock is a throw... :-D

Oh, just had to respond to this. Off topic-ish, I know, but...

There's a teacher at my school, been in the system (TKD) for decades, with a heavy Taichi Chuan, who likes to take the traditional forms and a bouncy student and turn every single motion into a take-down. (Or two, or three) Great fun, with the stylized, often esoteric techniques of the forms, to see them completely "taichi-ized" and turned into something you never really perceived them to be before.

 

[RTKDCMB]

1. Strike the Strike. These are the aggressive, smashing "blocks" meant to inflict damage to the opponents strike. I'm thinking of iron monkey type smashy-smashy, as in, "hey, you threw an instep kick at my thigh, so I'll smash it with my knee-cap.
2. Block the Strike. These are, I would say, the truest "blocks" in the dictionary denotation of the term. You just put something in between the target and the incoming strike and hope it mostly stops the impact, for example, covering the side of your head with a folded arm to avoid getting your ear mashed by a hay-maker.
3. Redirect the Strike. These are the strike-negations that make contact, but, rather than trying to stop or diminish the incoming force, they merely stear it away from anything dangerous.
4. Muting the Strike. The negations where you get hit, but you curve around/with the strike so that it glances or is largely absorbed, and doesn't hurt or break as much as it might have.
5. Avoiding the Strike. Slipping punches, jumping back from kicks, ducking grabs, whatever, you just plain get completely out of the way of the strike.

Most blocks have elements of 1,2 and 3 to varying degrees,4 is called getting hit and 5 is evasion.

 

[Koshiki]

Most blocks have elements of 1,2 and 3 to varying degrees,4 is called getting hit and 5 is evasion.

Right. And, when I'm speaking technically, I would only count 1 Striking, and 2 Blocking the Strike as actual blocks. To get very pedantic, I would say that only number 2 is TRULY a "Block", and that when the intent shifts from only to stopping the motion, to actually damaging, you're strictly speaking striking a moving target, not so much blocking a strike. But again, it's all basically wordplay.

4 is getting hit, but we all know the difference between getting smashed in an air-filled belly, and bending around a punch. One hurts and makes you want to sit down and pout, one isn't all that bad.

Yeah, 5 is definitely an evasion/dodge. No one would think of it as a true, "block." My point was, that in what has become a discussion of semantics, the focus seems to have become, "where along the spectrum of ways-to-not-get-hurt do we call things a block." For me, it depends on the conversation and what I am trying to say. If I want to talk about the difference between a block and a redirect, then only the block is a "block". If I want to steer people away from trying to block, as in stop dead in it's tracks, every strike, then any way to not get hurt can be, metaphorically, a block.

THIS conversation, as I understand it, was originally about whether or not number 2 blocks, the kind that just attempt to stop a strike, not redirect it, for example, and upward block to a downward strike, or a low cross-block to a rising kick, or a fore-arm block to a horizontal strike, whether these types of blocks are viable. I could, of course, be mistaken, but I THINK that's what the original question was...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me, blocking is "how to deal with your opponent's punches". It can be a

- hard block as a knife cut into the wood.
- 4 oz force to deflect 1000 lb force.

It can also be an octopus arms wraps around it pray that can turn a striking game into a grappling game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nWjcGRF-7g&feature=youtu.be

 

[FullPotentialMA]

What are blocks anyway?
A lot of martial arts schools teach "blocks" and "strikes" separately. Once you are a little more advanced, you will see that a "strike" can be a block, and a "block" can really be a strike.
In traditional "e.g., Okinawan Karate" blocks, it is really the "prepare" that accomplishes the job of blocking, redirecting, trapping, or what have you. The "block technique" itself then strikes, breaks, or locks the opponent.
There are lots of excellent flow drills (some of which we practice in our martial arts dojo in San Diego) that teach those uses.

 

[donald1]

Blocking isn't just for stopping an attack, but can be used to counter or restraint and avoid a longer so.
Yes there are times not to block, it goes either way but still blocks are important

 

[K-man]

What are blocks anyway?

In traditional "e.g., Okinawan Karate" blocks, it is really the "prepare" that accomplishes the job of blocking, redirecting, trapping, or what have you. The "block technique" itself then strikes, breaks, or locks the opponent.
There are lots of excellent flow drills (some of which we practice in our martial arts dojo in San Diego) that teach those uses.

Hurray! At last someone on my side.

 

[RTKDCMB]

My point was, that in what has become a discussion of semantics, the focus seems to have become

I'm always up to some antics.

 

[Koshiki]

I'm always up to some antics.

Ooooh, that was baaaad. Some Semantic Antics, huh?

Seriously though, this conversation has been all (mostly) about what we can use the word "block" to describe, and not at all (not mostly) about whether or not trying to block/stop attacks can be realistically done. At least to my reading.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Ooooh, that was baaaad. Some Semantic Antics, huh?

Blame Mel Gibson.

 

[Koshiki]

Blame Mel Gibson.

Oh, is he the culprit? Why, that little....

 

[lklawson]

Hurray! At last someone on my side.

Oh, I'm generally with you on this. I've had more than one enthusiastic discussion on site where I maintained that the standard 2-motion "Karate block" is actually a parry (first motion) followed by a ripost (second motion). IMS, last time I had this discussion Chris Parker took the opposite side, particularly for the "High Block," working the position that it was a hard-block for a straight down shinken strike to the top of the head ("Heaven lies beneath the sword" imms).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[K-man]

Oh, I'm generally with you on this. I've had more than one enthusiastic discussion on site where I maintained that the standard 2-motion "Karate block" is actually a parry (first motion) followed by a ripost (second motion). IMS, last time I had this discussion Chris Parker took the opposite side, particularly for the "High Block," working the position that it was a hard-block for a straight down shinken strike to the top of the head ("Heaven lies beneath the sword" imms).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

We actually didn't have the rising block in Goju at all until Nagamine and Miyagi got together to develop the Fukugata. That could actually support Chris' view for two reasons. One, karate was principally practised for defence against an unarmed attacker and two, that using an uplifted arm to protect against a descending sword is likely to have an unfortunate outcome unless you are close enough to stop the arm coming down which wouldn't be the case if the sword cut is done the way I train with the bokken in aikido. (I'm not a sword expert.)

One variation I have been exploring of recent times with age uke is obviously the first brush against the punch to the head with the second hand coming under the attacker's arm to deliver an uppercut or the open hand version comes up under the jaw for a strike and takedown. Look on attacker's face ... priceless. This actually follows exactly the kihon.
:asian:

 

[David Lader]

Traditional blocking drills are vital for imprinting the mind body connection for "equal and opposite" striking/blocking movements...Do we truly block this way during genuine self-defense engagements? No...of course not...that's simply absurd...Should we train traditional blocking routines? YES! Good luck. Contact me if you want more meaningful martial arts insites...

 

[K-man]

Traditional blocking drills are vital for imprinting the mind body connection for "equal and opposite" striking/blocking movements...Do we truly block this way during genuine self-defense engagements? No...of course not...that's simply absurd...Should we train traditional blocking routines? YES! Good luck. Contact me if you want more meaningful martial arts insites...

So why train them that way if you aren't going to use them?
And, I disagree totally on the 'equal and opposite' theory. It defies biomechanics if you are looking to deliver with full power. What you see in a sport based environment is totally different to reality based.
:asian: