Black Belt Definiton

[Hyoho]

Natural ability can make a huge difference, but it doesn't necessarily outweigh hard work. I've passed a lot of people along the way who had much more talent than I did, because I kept at it while they gave up.

On the other hand, I have had newer people come along and pass me because they had talent and put in a ton of hard work.

If you think of the equation as results = work x talent x coaching, then it's obvious the folks at the very top of any field will be the ones who had unusual natural talent, worked their asses off for a long time, and had guidance to apply their work in the most productive directions. If you want to win an Olympic gold medal, or a Nobel prize, or an Oscar, or be at the equivalent level as the people who do such things, then you need all those factors. For the other 99.999% of the population, I'd recommend not worrying too much about one's natural limits, since very few of us ever reach the limit of our natural capacity in any field. We mostly just reach the point where we don't care about that area of our life enough to work on it any more than we already are.

For sure you only get out of it what you put into it. My own personal training used to be around ten times a week. Sadly I have seen many train to extremes from elementary to university level to win national competitions. Then they just 'give up'. But many of them did require a minimum sandan level to secure a job.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think that is probably true in extreme positions, you cant teach complicated movement patterns to someone who has little capacity for developing motor skill , and certainly someone who has good motor skills at one sport will find it a lot easier to develop motor skills for another sport, so someone who is already good at fighting will find it easier, but the same is true for someone who is good at soccer or even table tennis. That said people can improve so they can be better at what they do, quite often a lot lot better. If that makes them good at fighting depends on where they started and who they are fighting

Well that depends. There are some people that excel at just about any sport they do. And then there are people who might be really good in one sport but not good at certain other sports.

 

[jobo]

Well that depends. There are some people that excel at just about any sport they do. And then there are people who might be really good in one sport but not good at certain other sports.

yes to some extent. You can find a sport that is better suited to your body type, just as you can find a ma that is better to your physical features. I have much better hand eye co ordination than eye foot co ordination. My legs think they are for running and jumping not juggling things. I excelled at rugby , run fast and catch things, less so at football so I just ran fast and kicked people instead. But its one of lives unfairness, that people with a high standard of balance cardio and co ordination are fairly good at most sports and those that arn't are not
even some thing as simple as running takes fairly advance motor skill, as you may have noticed with people jogging by with no such skills. Even fishing takes good reactions and co ordination

 

[PhotonGuy]

So there's this fellow who got a black belt in BJJ. He says if you get a black belt in BJJ it really is quite an accomplishment. He says that if you get a Karate black belt its really no big deal since there's so many of them but with BJJ black belts they are much more rare and to get a black belt in BJJ you've really got to work hard and you've got to put in your time. So according to him getting a black belt in a style such as BJJ is quite different than getting it in Karate or some other style.

 

[TSDTexan]

So there's this fellow who got a black belt in BJJ. He says if you get a black belt in BJJ it really is quite an accomplishment. He says that if you get a Karate black belt its really no big deal since there's so many of them but with BJJ black belts they are much more rare and to get a black belt in BJJ you've really got to work hard and you've got to put in your time. So according to him getting a black belt in a style such as BJJ is quite different than getting it in Karate or some other style.

Error : he assumed that all karate is the same. It isn't. Depending on which style of karate it can take longer then 10 years to rank a bb.

 

[CB Jones]

I wasn't clear. Where I've seen it the per-class cost of the "Black Belt Club" classes was higher. So, it might be $100/mo for 2 regular classes/wk (8 classes, most months). The BB Club might be $50 for two more classes (not per week, per month).

If the classes are smaller and specialized, that might be a reasonable higher fee. If they are not much smaller and/or aren't particularly different in content, then there's little justification.

It's one of those things that can be bad or good, depending how it's used. I just haven't run into it being used the good way as often as the bad.

Where we train has a black belt club....you have the option to join when you move up to the advanced class. Its an extra $20 a month but you get unlimited access to the dojo and you are provided with your first Bo staff and Nunchaku.

 

[CB Jones]

TSD not sure what is funny about what I posted?

 

[TSDTexan]

TSD not sure what is funny about what I posted?

I was just smiling. That made me feel good.

I like "all you can eat" type deals... especially when they throw in a Bo "staff" (I feel the twitches of those who are anal-retention-ish about using the redundant terms).

However, my ears have heard okinawans, who were kobudo practioners commit this Horrible Faux Pas.
Hey, if they can do it we can do.

But I would ask if I could have Sai instead of Nunchaku.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So there's this fellow who got a black belt in BJJ. He says if you get a black belt in BJJ it really is quite an accomplishment. He says that if you get a Karate black belt its really no big deal since there's so many of them but with BJJ black belts they are much more rare and to get a black belt in BJJ you've really got to work hard and you've got to put in your time. So according to him getting a black belt in a style such as BJJ is quite different than getting it in Karate or some other style.

The BB means what it means to each person. Some people are quite pleased when they receive theirs, regardless of how long or short the training was to get there. Some prefer ranks to come slowly, so they can enjoy the moment more. Others like them to come quickly, so they can move through them and enjoy more promotions. Some just train and get the ranks at whatever speed they come, without much focus on their belt color. Nothing inherently wrong with any of them, so long as they don't impose their own standards on others.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where we train has a black belt club....you have the option to join when you move up to the advanced class. Its an extra $20 a month but you get unlimited access to the dojo and you are provided with your first Bo staff and Nunchaku.

I like that deal. Before the upgrade, how many classes are normally included?

 

[CB Jones]

especially when they throw in a Bo "staff"

Point taken. lol.

But I would ask if I could have Sai instead of Nunchaku.

Our School teaches 3 weapon Bo, Nunchaku, and Sai......Bo is the main weapon taught and just the basics of Nunchaku. If you want to learn more advanced Nunchaku and/or Sai you have to ask and work on that after class.

I like that deal. Before the upgrade, how many classes are normally included?

Beginners get 2 classes per week....advanced gets both beginner classes and both advanced classes (they are run directly after each other)....so 4. Black Belt Club gets the 2 beginners, 2 advanced, along with 2 nights training with the University team, and Friday nights are Black Belts and BB Club only. You can also get let in the dojo on weekends upon request.


Our BB Club is not for BB it is for students who want to put in more work to get their BB. When you join, your BB with your name is hung up on the wall until you earn it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Point taken. lol.



Our School teaches 3 weapon Bo, Nunchaku, and Sai......Bo is the main weapon taught and just the basics of Nunchaku. If you want to learn more advanced Nunchaku and/or Sai you have to ask and work on that after class.



Beginners get 2 classes per week....advanced gets both beginner classes and both advanced classes (they are run directly after each other)....so 4. Black Belt Club gets the 2 beginners, 2 advanced, along with 2 nights training with the University team, and Friday nights are Black Belts and BB Club only. You can also get let in the dojo on weekends upon request.


Our BB Club is not for BB it is for students who want to put in more work to get their BB. When you join, your BB with your name is hung up on the wall until you earn it.

So, are there just 4 regular classes per week - 2 beginners classes and 2 advanced? Or are there more, and folks just get to attend 2?

 

[CB Jones]

So, are there just 4 regular classes per week - 2 beginners classes and 2 advanced? Or are there more, and folks just get to attend 2?

Beginner class is two nights per week and advanced class is after beginner class at the dojo. (Tues and Thurs)

Two nights a week is a University class and karate team training at the university (Mon and Wed). University students and BB club only.

Friday nights are BB and BB club only at the dojo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Beginner class is two nights per week and advanced class is after beginner class at the dojo. (Tues and Thurs)

Two nights a week is a University class and karate team training at the university (Mon and Wed). University students and BB club only.

Friday nights are BB and BB club only at the dojo.

Interesting. I've always trained at schools (except when I was taking private lessons) where general classes (beginners and others together) were held 5-6 days a week, sometimes multiple times a day. I had assumed that was necessary for a program to grow. Perhaps not. Perhaps my 3 class days (Tues, Thurs, Sat) are enough for the foreseeable future.

 

[CB Jones]

Interesting. I've always trained at schools (except when I was taking private lessons) where general classes (beginners and others together) were held 5-6 days a week, sometimes multiple times a day. I had assumed that was necessary for a program to grow. Perhaps not. Perhaps my 3 class days (Tues, Thurs, Sat) are enough for the foreseeable future.

2 classes a night seem fine for the beginners.

Now the advanced students typically join the BB club and will train 3-5 nights a week.

 

[CB Jones]

Also let me add that our Sensei used to offer 4 nights a week for beginners but had to reduce it to 2 when he took over the University team for his Sensei when he retired a couple years ago. (the university and the dojo are in 2 different cities)

Really didn't see much difference in a change in the beginners rate of progress though.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I don't use colored belts or higher ranks in my system. There is no master to point the way or set the next goal. Brothers and sisters in my style are encouraged to set their own personal goals and work toward reaching those goals in their spare time. Some progress faster than others. Some are more advanced than others. Some are younger, some are older. Some are faster, some are stronger. Some train harder and more often than others. No matter what though, my system always goes by age, oldest to youngest. Hence I have older brothers and younger brothers, juniors and seniors. Skill level isn't that important to us, but the training quality is always higher than expected without bias, meaning there is no leniency for women or children, for the elderly or handicapped. Everyone is treated equally and pushed to their very limits, at their own pace of course. This works well for our style, or at least I think it does. I haven't trained with many disabled persons in my lifetime, just one guy in a wheelchair who developed some amazing arm strength/speed. Right now, the oldest person to practice my system is 39-years-old, hardly the oldest MAist on the block. So we'll just have to wait to see how well this system works in 20 years from now if it survives.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Error : he assumed that all karate is the same. It isn't. Depending on which style of karate it can take longer then 10 years to rank a bb.

True. There are many different styles of Karate especially considering that Karate has become a generic term for many of the striking based styles of the orient. For instance TKD will often be called Karate or Korean Karate due to its similarities to the Japanese striking styles. And then there are many different styles within styles all of which might be called Karate. I think what he meant is that Karate black belts are all too common but you don't find that many BJJ black belts. There are some Karate schools where it does take 10 years or more on the average for a person to get a black belt and then there are Karate schools which are belt factories. TKD schools can be notorious for being belt factories. Not all TKD schools are belt factories but there are many that are and there are some of the Japanese Karate schools that are belt factories too. Right now you don't see much if any BJJ schools that are belt factories but sadly that might change. Schools everywhere are popping up that claim to teach BJJ and for some of them to be belt factories will no doubt be the next thing to follow. Now, a school that uses the Gracie name on the other hand, if they do so without the Gracie's approval they will most likely be called out for it so that is why I prefer to train at a BJJ school that uses the Gracie name. Any school that is run by the Gracies or teaches under the Gracie name will not be a belt factory. The fellow who got a black belt in BJJ, he just pointed out how he had to work hard and put in his time to really earn it. Sure there are Karate schools like that too but there are many Karate schools that more or less hand out belts unlike how it is with BJJ at least for now.

 

[PhotonGuy]

The BB means what it means to each person. Some people are quite pleased when they receive theirs, regardless of how long or short the training was to get there. Some prefer ranks to come slowly, so they can enjoy the moment more. Others like them to come quickly, so they can move through them and enjoy more promotions. Some just train and get the ranks at whatever speed they come, without much focus on their belt color. Nothing inherently wrong with any of them, so long as they don't impose their own standards on others.

I agree. The meaning varies from person to person but also from dojo to dojo. I also agree that people shouldn't impose their standards on others which I believe has caused problems here before.

 

[TSDTexan]

True. There are many different styles of Karate especially considering that Karate has become a generic term for many of the striking based styles of the orient. For instance TKD will often be called Karate or Korean Karate due to its similarities to the Japanese striking styles. And then there are many different styles within styles all of which might be called Karate. I think what he meant is that Karate black belts are all too common but you don't find that many BJJ black belts. There are some Karate schools where it does take 10 years or more on the average for a person to get a black belt and then there are Karate schools which are belt factories. TKD schools can be notorious for being belt factories. Not all TKD schools are belt factories but there are many that are and there are some of the Japanese Karate schools that are belt factories too. Right now you don't see much if any BJJ schools that are belt factories but sadly that might change. Schools everywhere are popping up that claim to teach BJJ and for some of them to be belt factories will no doubt be the next thing to follow. Now, a school that uses the Gracie name on the other hand, if they do so without the Gracie's approval they will most likely be called out for it so that is why I prefer to train at a BJJ school that uses the Gracie name. Any school that is run by the Gracies or teaches under the Gracie name will not be a belt factory. The fellow who got a black belt in BJJ, he just pointed out how he had to work hard and put in his time to really earn it. Sure there are Karate schools like that too but there are many Karate schools that more or less hand out belts unlike how it is with BJJ at least for now.

Yes. My journey in unarmed martial arts started in a Shotokan / Tang Soo Do school.
From there I went to a school called "Action Karate Moo Duk Kwan". The teacher at the second school always called it Korean Karate.
The Korean hyungs: called "Pyong-an" or "Pyung-Ahn" were created in Okinawa.

There are many other "kata" from Okinawa that wound up becoming korean "Hyungs". How it came to be is hotly contested, in many circles.

But yes, if a KMA has a form from Okinawa, or Japanese karate, then the art is decended from karate.

But the term karate does mean many things to different people.

An uninformed American who watched the Karate kid with Ralph Macchio, and Pat Morito and that was his basic level of knowledge about karate... he would look at TSD, And TKD... and presumably feel that it was Korean Karate.

Ask a lot of Koreans, about the karate kid movie... they would say it's not TKD or TSD....
In that movie but Japanese Karate....
The irony here is that the Karate Kid franchise had all of its fight choreography done by Pat E. Johnson.

Now, most people have no idea who he is.
But he is an ATSD 9th dan. Trained by a Korean, and by Chuck Norris.

He used TSD for the karate kid, but most Koreans I know think it's Japanese karate not Korean tsd