Black Belt Definiton

[Danny T]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

No matter any one person's opinion is it only means and corresponds to what the awarding school's, organization's, group's, or individual's meaning & standard is. In one organization it could mean you have learned the basics, in another it may be you have mastered the basics, and yet in a completely different one it may be you have gotten to the point you know enough to train without getting hurt. (In Judo the original BB was award by Kano to those students who knew how to fall without getting hurt. He could do all the throws with those students.)
Black Belt means the belt you are using as a part of your uniform associated with your school is black.

 

[wingerjim]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

For me it means I have learned a system, in my case Wing Chun as I know all 6 forms, now I am on my journey to becoming a master. Though we actually do not have these my sifu told me I am a Black Belt (Sash), which just means I accomplished the basic learning of the system. Mastering the system takes a whole lot more work than knowing the system, so my journey as he says is really just beginning.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Too many people think that achieving 1st Degree Black Belt is the be-all and end-all and they quit there.

I like to have folks think of it like this: setting the goal to achieve 1st Degree is a great thing to do, but it's like setting a goal to graduate from high school. The training from 1st grade through 12th grade is all getting you ready to go to college and do some serious studying. Same with martial arts. The journey from White Belt to Black Belt is all about learning the basics. At Black Belt is where you truly begin to study the art.

I think some stop after reaching shodan because they aren't interested in studying the art. They have another goal that their martial training was fulfilling, and maybe that is as far as that art can take them toward that goal. Or, maybe the goal is best met by going and adding another art. Some of my favorite training partners in NGA have moved on to other arts. I think that was in large part because they liked the discovery and learning really new stuff, and there's little entirely new stuff in NGA after shodan, unless you want to dig in and really get into the art, itself.

 

[EddieCyrax]

My opinion.... when i try to explain this topic to friends that dont train in the martial arts, I tell them that BB is like a college bachelor degree. You put in a lot of study and effort to reach this goal. This said you can continue your learning to move towards a Mastor's or PHD.....

 

[PhotonGuy]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

It all depends on where you get it and the requirements you had to fulfill to get it. It varies from dojo to dojo and each dojo has their own set of requirements.

 

[Hyoho]

Associations set gradings not dojo.The usual dropout level in Japan is Rokudan.

 

[Buka]

Black Belt - That thing that you tie around your waist that makes you feel really cool anywhere from five minutes to a day and a half.
Then you get your butt whooped. Repeatedly.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Were I train and previously trained, black belt took about 5 years of consistent training 3x a week on average. Earning 1st dan means you demonstrated proficiency in the basics and are ready to work on more advanced application of the basics. It means you're no longer being forced into a mold, in a way - the techniques are yours and you can start making them work for you so to speak. That last one is hard to explain, but if you've been where I've been, you'll know what I mean. And it's in a good way.

I agree with you about how when you achieve black belt it means you're proficient with the basics and ready to learn the more advanced stuff which just consists of more layers of the basics. To no longer be forced into a mold is a good analogy. You've learned the roots now its time to flourish from inside. The techniques are yours and you can start using them in your own way to make them work best for you.

Personally, I'm fine with taking my time to achieve a rank. It means far more that way. I guess my CI's "good enough" is at a higher standard than that other CI's "good enough."

Well you do have to put in your time if you want to earn a belt from a school that has good standards. You say that at your school getting a black belt on the average takes about 5 years of training 3 times a week. It sounds like a school that has good high standards and that you've really got to know your stuff to get a black belt. In regards to putting in your time though, there is also the question of how much time you put in per week, per class, ect. For instance, I've known of TKD schools that have this special club called the Black Belt Club. Not all the students were in the Black Belt Club but it was a club for students who wanted to make a long term commitment and who hoped to eventually earn a black belt and who wanted to get to black belt sooner than students who weren't in the club. If made black belt and you were in the club you would do it in maybe a year or so less than students who made black belt who were not in the club. When you were in the club you would come in extra times per week and you would sometimes stay after class for further training. That's how you would shave a year or so off the time it would take you to get a black belt.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Black Belt - That thing that you tie around your waist that makes you feel really cool anywhere from five minutes to a day and a half.
Then you get your butt whooped. Repeatedly.

The part about getting your butt whooped isn't true if you earned it at a legitimate school. If you had it handed to you or if you bought it without earning it than you most likely will get your butt whooped.

 

[Buka]

The part about getting your butt whooped isn't true if you earned it at a legitimate school. If you had it handed to you or if you bought it without earning it than you most likely will get your butt whooped.

Bro, if you earned it at a legitimate school, then the school is going to have some seriously proficient black belts. And you're going to be sparring with them.

Pack a lunch. You're going to be getting your butt whooped all day.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Bro, if you earned it at a legitimate school, then the school is going to have some seriously proficient black belts. And you're going to be sparring with them.

Pack a lunch. You're going to be getting your butt whooped all day.

Alright I see what you mean. And from my experience I must say you're right.

 

[Buka]

You know how it is, a guy puts on that new belt, it's all stiff, kinda looks like a cat's top whiskers sticking out to the side.
Hard to not to land body kicks at a guy looking like that, break in his belt for him.

New black belts in the striking arts are so damn cute. We've all been there. And may we all remember what it was like.

 

[JR 137]

You know how it is, a guy puts on that new belt, it's all stiff, kinda looks like a cat's top whiskers sticking out to the side.
Hard to not to land body kicks at a guy looking like that, break in his belt for him.

New black belts in the striking arts are so damn cute. We've all been there. And may we all remember what it was like.

I remember what that was like, and I'll go through it again, eventually.

I walked in to my first black belts only class. No one congratulated me. Why? They were there when I got it. Everyone beat me up (no more so than before, no less). Why? Because the belt didn't give me any magical powers; I was still just JR. Different belt, same guy.

I was the dog who caught the car he was chasing, with that "now what do I do with it?" look on my face. Just like everyone else I saw walk in to that class for the first time.

 

[Buka]

I was the dog who caught the car he was chasing, with that "now what do I do with it?" look on my face. Just like everyone else I saw walk in to that class for the first time.

I really got a kick out of that.

 

[JR 137]

I agree with you about how when you achieve black belt it means you're proficient with the basics and ready to learn the more advanced stuff which just consists of more layers of the basics. To no longer be forced into a mold is a good analogy. You've learned the roots now its time to flourish from inside. The techniques are yours and you can start using them in your own way to make them work best for you.



Well you do have to put in your time if you want to earn a belt from a school that has good standards. You say that at your school getting a black belt on the average takes about 5 years of training 3 times a week. It sounds like a school that has good high standards and that you've really got to know your stuff to get a black belt. In regards to putting in your time though, there is also the question of how much time you put in per week, per class, ect. For instance, I've known of TKD schools that have this special club called the Black Belt Club. Not all the students were in the Black Belt Club but it was a club for students who wanted to make a long term commitment and who hoped to eventually earn a black belt and who wanted to get to black belt sooner than students who weren't in the club. If made black belt and you were in the club you would do it in maybe a year or so less than students who made black belt who were not in the club. When you were in the club you would come in extra times per week and you would sometimes stay after class for further training. That's how you would shave a year or so off the time it would take you to get a black belt.

I always wondered what the "black belt club" was. I thought it was for black belts. I always looked at it like "why does this guy need a patch; doesn't the belt itself say that?"

Neither school I've attended had a black belt club. If you trained more often (and trained hard while you were there), you promoted a bit faster. I earned my 1st dan a month short of 4 years. I was typically at the dojo 4 nights a week, and frequently took back to back classes. Being an early 20s college student, I didn't have the responsibilities I have today.

This time around, I don't know how long it'll take. But honestly, I don't care much.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I always wondered what the "black belt club" was. I thought it was for black belts. I always looked at it like "why does this guy need a patch; doesn't the belt itself say that?"

Neither school I've attended had a black belt club. If you trained more often (and trained hard while you were there), you promoted a bit faster. I earned my 1st dan a month short of 4 years. I was typically at the dojo 4 nights a week, and frequently took back to back classes. Being an early 20s college student, I didn't have the responsibilities I have today.

This time around, I don't know how long it'll take. But honestly, I don't care much.

I've heard of that as a sales tactic. A school offers an upsell to the "Black Belt Club" that is designed to help get the student to BB faster, or some such. In some cases, it might be legitimate, but where I've heard it explained it usually was nothing more than a way to charge a bit more for those classes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I remember what that was like, and I'll go through it again, eventually.

I walked in to my first black belts only class. No one congratulated me. Why? They were there when I got it. Everyone beat me up (no more so than before, no less). Why? Because the belt didn't give me any magical powers; I was still just JR. Different belt, same guy.

I was the dog who caught the car he was chasing, with that "now what do I do with it?" look on my face. Just like everyone else I saw walk in to that class for the first time.

We never had a BB-only class (never more than a few BB at the school I trained at), but I remember when folks would join the "advanced" class. It was open to any student who had all 50 techniques, and the pace and intensity was distinctly different there. We never had to be nearly so careful in that class, so it was....bruisier.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I've heard of that as a sales tactic. A school offers an upsell to the "Black Belt Club" that is designed to help get the student to BB faster, or some such. In some cases, it might be legitimate, but where I've heard it explained it usually was nothing more than a way to charge a bit more for those classes.

Well you would pay more because you would go to more classes and sometimes your classes would be longer. You pay the same amount per class whether you're in the club or not, but with the club you pay for the extra classes and the extra time that they would not devote to you if you were not in the club.

 

[JR 137]

Well you would pay more because you would go to more classes and sometimes your classes would be longer. You pay the same amount per class whether you're in the club or not, but with the club you pay for the extra classes and the extra time that they would not devote to you if you were not in the club.

That makes sense if you're paying per class or for up to x number of classes per week or month. Or if it includes private lessons. Doesn't make sense if you pay a monthly fee for unlimited classes.

 

[JR 137]

We never had a BB-only class (never more than a few BB at the school I trained at), but I remember when folks would join the "advanced" class. It was open to any student who had all 50 techniques, and the pace and intensity was distinctly different there. We never had to be nearly so careful in that class, so it was....bruisier.

Your advanced class is/was probably the same thing as our black belts class, if you adjusted for rank criteria.

I wouldn't say it was "bruisier" per se. Just that there were no opportunities to take it easy. In a general class, you've got a mix of ranks. You might spar a 10th kyu, then a 6th kyu, then a yondan, then a sandan, then an 8th kyu, etc. In black belt class, you don't get those easy rounds. Unless of course you're pretty high up in rank and you're still relatively young.