I don't support shooting monkeys into space, but that doesn't mean I want to erase NASA's R&D from the 50's and 60's.
Bin Laden is dead
- Thread starter Twin Fist
- Start date
- Status
Sure, he is a U.S. citizen making war on the united states. If he is captured and they know he has info. waterboard him. His citzenship shouldn't protect him if he goes overseas to fight against this country. He is an unlawful combatant, so he is fair game.
Yeah, this is the guy I would waterboard:
from the article above:
bdulmutallab told the FBI that al-Awlaki was one of his al-Qaeda trainers in remote camps in Yemen. And there were confirming "informed reports" that Abdulmutallab met with al-Awlaki during his final weeks of training and indoctrination prior to the attack.[166][167] The L.A. Times reported that according to a U.S. intelligence official, intercepts and other information point to connections between the two:
Some of the information ... comes from Abdulmutallab, who ... said that he met with al-Awlaki and senior al-Qaeda members during an extended trip to Yemen this year, and that the cleric was involved in some elements of planning or preparing the attack and in providing religious justification for it. Other intelligence linking the two became apparent after the attempted bombing, including communications intercepted by the National Security Agency indicating that the cleric was meeting with "a Nigerian" in preparation for some kind of operation.[24]
from the article above:
bdulmutallab told the FBI that al-Awlaki was one of his al-Qaeda trainers in remote camps in Yemen. And there were confirming "informed reports" that Abdulmutallab met with al-Awlaki during his final weeks of training and indoctrination prior to the attack.[166][167] The L.A. Times reported that according to a U.S. intelligence official, intercepts and other information point to connections between the two:
Some of the information ... comes from Abdulmutallab, who ... said that he met with al-Awlaki and senior al-Qaeda members during an extended trip to Yemen this year, and that the cleric was involved in some elements of planning or preparing the attack and in providing religious justification for it. Other intelligence linking the two became apparent after the attempted bombing, including communications intercepted by the National Security Agency indicating that the cleric was meeting with "a Nigerian" in preparation for some kind of operation.[24]
Except:
So, won't waterboard a US Citizen, except when you will.
Gotcha.
Oh, a US Citizen who fights against the US is still a citizen.
He's not a "unlawful combatant".
He would be most likely defined as a Rebel.
"A person who rises in opposition or armed resistance against an established government or ruler"
Or possible a traitor, "A person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc"
Then there is this from that "God Damned Piece of Paper" so dismissed by Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney.
You know, I took you off ignore because this topic was important. I've read your comments and Bob Hubbard's responses and I am convinced now more than ever that you seriously just type ****.
You don't read other people's posts. It's not even a discussion with you, you're talking AT us.
Totally. Not. Worth. My. Time.
Buh-bye. Again.
An unlawful enemy combatant trumps citizenship. If he is fighting with the terrorists against us, in a foreign country he is fair game. If he was caught here in the states, he would be protected by the constitution for the most part. Yeah, you got me. Let's pick some more nits shall we.
I'll clarify the foreign national part as well. If a british citizen commits a crime under the U.S. criminal code here in the states, I would not waterboard him. If he commits an act of terrorism in the continental U.S. I would not water board him. If he is fighting overseas as an unlawful enemy combatant, I would waterboard him, if he is determined by the C.I.A. and the intelligence community to need to be waterboarded.
Oh, if you want to call that other guy a traitor, I'll go with that. Then we can execute him after we put him through a military tribunal, if he is found guilty.
Oh, if you want to call that other guy a traitor, I'll go with that. Then we can execute him after we put him through a military tribunal, if he is found guilty.
Do you want to write that again but just a bit more patronising?
I'm sorry I just have to laugh otherwise I think I'd probably cry at your naivety. You of course have personal experience of nearly forty years dealing with terrorists suspects, have a huge amount of experience in interrogation techniques both 'soft' and 'hard' so can say for sure that this torture is the best way to make someone tell you the truth. Again taking out the moral aspects you really do believe don't you that waterboarding is a useful way to collect intel, dear me, it must be so your media darlings are telling you that it is.
If I knew someone had vital infomation and I could save thousands of lives I still wouldn't waterboard them because I know, yes, know that it isn't the fastest or the most efficient way of gaining that information, it's crude and done more for the enjoyment of those watching or for revenge. There's faster more reliable ways to make someone talk and make sure it's reliable information, ways certainly that would be classed as immoral but as I said taking the moral aspect out of it waterboarding is still not a useful tool in an interrogator's box.
You have British detainees in Gitmo, I can even give you their names and they are being abused ands tortured.
All the names of the detainees have been put on Wikileaks btw along with more secret filesfrom Gitmo.
http://www.wikileaks.ch/gitmo/
See, secret interrogation places are Goodthink if done by the US. Badthink if done bay -anyone else-.
Like having nukes. Only the people we like are supposed to have them, because everyone else are bad.
But don't worry, they must be guilty as the US doesn't make mistakes and accidentally do things like say, kidnap a Canadian ship him to our Syrian buddies who spend some 'quality enhanced interrogation time' with him before releasing him months later with out explanation or apology. Nope. Never happened.
Like having nukes. Only the people we like are supposed to have them, because everyone else are bad.
But don't worry, they must be guilty as the US doesn't make mistakes and accidentally do things like say, kidnap a Canadian ship him to our Syrian buddies who spend some 'quality enhanced interrogation time' with him before releasing him months later with out explanation or apology. Nope. Never happened.
But see, they weren't fighting under a British flag, so that makes them 'unlawful'.
Because of course 'mercenary' doesn't apply.
See
So, in order to get around the various GC's all you have to do is have a lawyer declare your country a 'failed state' and bam! instant excuse to torture at whim.
That's if they were fighting, some just went back to Pakistan to visit families, go to funerals, get married etc. It's common here for Asians to go back to marry,it causes an immigration issue but isn't illegal. We have a lot of first generation immigrants whose families are still in their country of origin so naturally they go back and forward on visits.
That's not to say there aren't potential and real terrorists out there but the chances of you finding them in poor countries when you offer a bounty is very slight. What you get is poor people dobbing neighbours etc in that they have had disagreements with, don't like or are jealous of. Informers get rich by their terms and we end up with innocent victims who we have to say are terrorists to save face. Hardly satisfactory or good security.
But when you need to keep fear in the public eye and justify huge payouts to companies owned by friends of yours for things like 'rebuilding' and 'reconstruction', that's hard to do without every so often announcing you've captured 'another' terrorist.
Of course, the US would never do such a thing.
Mistake an innocent for a terrorist, or make an arrest just to snag some headline space.
Because of course the US and international intelligence community has a terrific track record on gathering accurate, reliable and current intel. That's why they found those WMD in Iraq, and saved those Buddha's in Afghanistan.
Of course, the US would never do such a thing.
Mistake an innocent for a terrorist, or make an arrest just to snag some headline space.
Because of course the US and international intelligence community has a terrific track record on gathering accurate, reliable and current intel. That's why they found those WMD in Iraq, and saved those Buddha's in Afghanistan.
- Status
