Being critizise and giving criticism

[CoryKS]

Dude. You told that joke wrong. Maybe if you'd pressure tested the joke in front of a live audience, you'd have developed the timing necessary to deliver the joke effectively. If you don't joke with aliveness, you won't know whether it's funny or not until it's too late.

We don't tell jokes in front of a live audience, my comedy instructor said it's too dangerous.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Mature is accepting all or any criticism...and NOT let it bother you!

A True master of the martial arts....does NOT let, any or all criticism of his art affect them.

Criticism in the right way can be a great learning tool...!

Also a MATURE PERSON DOES NOT CRITIZISE EITHER!

Aloha, ...this is my way of complaining???

PS: Hard to grow up? ....many times here...

 

[Bruno@MT]

In the end, I think you need to remember that we are all just human beings, and that anything we do or organize will be fraught with the consequences of human imperfection. Not only in the dojo, but also here on this board.

And when it comes to something that people care about, this just amplifies the emotional investment, hence the 'your martial art sucks' threads.

People do MA for many different reasons, and seek out something that fits their motivation. Judging that from your own perspective will indeed cause strife.

I have chosen a MA that has what I want. I have looked at many others, and for one reason or other those were not what I was looking for. I have always been drawn towards traditional Japanese systems. That does not mean that I think they are inherently better. It just means that I like better for me.

Even within 1 dojo, different people enroll for different reasons, and train with differing levels of commitment. That is not a problem either. And as someone said earlier: you need to have students in order to have a club.

The only thing I can't stand is dishonesty. People lying in order to make their system look like something it isn't. Because in that case, students are being duped into something that is not what they are looking for.

 

[mwd0818]

In all seriousness, I don't see a lot of that on this board. Maybe I'm blithely ignorant and naive (I'd like to think not, but of course, that's the curse of naivetee), but I don't see a lot of belittling and defamation... outside of the political discussions, that is.

In my experience here, most times when someone is offended, it's as a result of a misunderstanding. Usually, it's when someone interprets a general statement as a personal attack, or in some other way projects their own situation onto a critical post.

I see the same thing on KenpoTalk where I have much more experience (most problems coming from misunderstandings, not attacks).

I will say though, I love my time on the forums where I can learn, discuss techniques, ideas, or help others out, encourage, hear great stories, etc. Sure, there's some nice stuff about pointing out the bad stuff, but I have yet to meet anyone that was perfect. Well, except that brunette in college . . . but I never talked to her, so I think that's why she was so perfect . . .

I signed up for Bullshido at one point cause I liked the idea of making sure that people were working hard and not being frauds. I read around for a bit, made I think four posts and left. Way too much ego, bashing, witch hunting, personal attacks, etc. for me.

In real life - my door is open. Come train, have some fun, and if you learn something, stick around. If not, thanks for the time and I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for.

On these forums - don't take it too seriously. Come in, waste some time on the Internet, hopefully learn something or help someone else learn something, and have fun. If that doesn't work, you don't have to read what is written.

And heck, this whole life thing . . . no one survives anyway . . .

 

[mwd0818]

Oh . . . and I welcome the criticism if it can help me get better. I'll make it to your technique too if I think it can help you. But otherwise, if it doesn't make one of us better, than there isn't much point in the criticism.

 

[Joab]

This forum is better about this than most. I used to be really bad about that kind of thing primarily due to the infleunce of two past teachers, especially one. For them to be that way really makes more sense than me, as they were and are in the field far longer and far, far, far more advanced. My basic line now is if you can make the art work it is the one for you. It's very politically correct and logical, and even one who used to make fun of aikido and claim it isn't even a martial art now writes that if you are expert level in aikido it can work.

But I'm really still at a beginner level, so I'm not one to judge.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Alot of folks on this board is real quick to critisive what other people do as far as a martial art. I mean we have the TKD haters, the Olympic TKD haters, the Karate haters, CMA and of course MMA. What I am trying to understand why? I mean if you own and operate a school you make concession on your clientel, you train those that want hardcore training versus those that want a good workout versus those that want to do tournaments.

Yet some of these same people get offended when they post something on here or youtube or anyplace for that matter and then get pissed off when some people say there stuff is weak or will not work or is for just the kids or the old people looking for a passtime. I am not trying to start a flame war with anyone here just trying to point out that when you make fun of people be prepared yourself for the same thing back.

I have trained probaly ten thousand peopel over the years some for sport, some for S.D. and some for just entertainment. I have learned how to tell what people really want and try to make sure that they get it. I may not be happy about it all the time and some of you know I ***** about it but the fact remains for my doors to stay open for those that want real training I need the common folks and there childern to pay the bills. If not for them than those few will be paying alot more in monthly dues than they do.

In closing I would like to add try and treat people with a little kindnes as you make fun of them and what they do. A friend as always said if you cannot handle the sport what makes you think you can handle the Art. I find this to be true in alot of ways.

I have been asked to "Look" at video online and give my opinion before. I would prefer not to give an opinion as I do not know what the person said before the video feed or after the video feed that was posted. They could have been making a joke or they could have been isolating a specific poriton of the body for a skill set and not for technique for fighting. they could also have said this is what you should not do.

That being said, when I give criticism I like to start out with a positive. I tell them something I liked. I then move on to the things that they could work on, for their future advancement (* this is neutral as it does nto mean they are bad for where they are at in thier training just some pointers on where to go or concentrate. *) and then I try to cover anything that was wrong or bad, then with a nice finish on telling them something positive or how I screwed up similarly or how I noticed one mistake they made but that they presented it well. This is to get them to smile and realize that I and others are human just like them, so they if they review what I have said they will be positive in their memory of the event and possible listen to what I have said.

I have been criticised before particularly at work by a management unit or two, and when it comes down to writing styles (* i.e. too formal or not formal enough *) I just smile and take the data point on how this person wants things done. I do get frustrated though from time to time when they are inconsistent or tell me about a problem but cannot give examples and cannot provide anything to do to fix it. To me this is just some subjective opinion they have made that nothing I can do will change what they perceive.

 

[BLACK LION]

criticizm= To find fault with openly... the word in itself can be "belittling"

I never offer criticizm wether its "constructive" or not... and I have a hard time taking criticizm if its offered as such.

I always shut off when I hear the word for some reason.

 

[Nolerama]

criticizm= To find fault with openly... the word in itself can be "belittling"

I never offer criticizm wether its "constructive" or not... and I have a hard time taking criticizm if its offered as such.

I always shut off when I hear the word for some reason.

You add the "constructive" because the person doing the criticizing is pointing out faults in something you're doing.

How do your training partners or students think about your view on constructive criticism?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Terry,

I think that being practitioners of some martial art, we all have a little bit of that 'dojo storming' mentality inside of us. In some it is more prevelant than in others.

That mentality makes people skim through a thread, all the while coming up with how their post is going to shut down or show up someone else's.

There are some people who are like this all the time, while others are the soul of humility until certain names or topics come up. Over in the Hapkido section, there can be major personality changes when the subject of Combat Hapkido and GM Pelligrini come up.

It is part of the internet and also part of the fact that arts are perceived as a kind of elite society and the dojo an exclusive club. Thus people view their art and school in terms of how elite and exclusive they are as compared with others.

The best that we can do is to not take it personally and to try to avoid making the same mistakes ourselves. Sometimes, we succeed, other times not.

Daniel

 

[BLACK LION]

I do not criticize nor offer my criticizm...
I merely offer my observation any make any pertinent suggestions... I expect the same in return... IMO This way there is complete freedom for them and me to come into our own by adapting and improvising in the way that we work as individuals... I dont want clones and I dont seek to clone anyone.

 

[Nolerama]

I do not criticize nor offer my criticizm...
I merely offer my observation any make any pertinent suggestions... I expect the same in return... IMO This way there is complete freedom for them and me to come into our own by adapting and improvising in the way that we work as individuals... I dont want clones and I dont seek to clone anyone.

Ah... semantics...

I don't know what you're talking about/ where you're going with the whole clone thing, but I think we're on the same page.

 

[BLACK LION]

I meant that I dont want them to move like me and act like me... I dont expect them to improvise the way I do... etc etc...
I want them do be them and do things the way they do it.
I understand everyone has there own flow...thier own ebb... and by maintaing a mutual relationship in which we are both learning I see the ability to flow progress much easier.

Allthough I may be in a "trainer" or "instructor" role...I dont take it authoritively in the sense that I am the singular source of knowledge and they must do what I say... I look at it as being a vessel that is there to share and help if I can... At the same time never forgetting that I can always learn even while I teach....

I want people around me to know that I am just like them and in no way superior... I dont want them to be like me...I want them to be who they are.

This very issue kept me out of studio after studio becuase I didnt like being talked down to and I didnt like being advanced yet forced to take baby steps or go with everyone elses pace....

I am sorry if my explaination is a bit jumbled... my verbage is off today

 

[mwd0818]

I meant that I dont want them to move like me and act like me... I dont expect them to improvise the way I do... etc etc...
I want them do be them and do things the way they do it.
I understand everyone has there own flow...thier own ebb... and by maintaing a mutual relationship in which we are both learning I see the ability to flow progress much easier.

Allthough I may be in a "trainer" or "instructor" role...I dont take it authoritively in the sense that I am the singular source of knowledge and they must do what I say... I look at it as being a vessel that is there to share and help if I can... At the same time never forgetting that I can always learn even while I teach....

I want people around me to know that I am just like them and in no way superior... I dont want them to be like me...I want them to be who they are.

This very issue kept me out of studio after studio becuase I didnt like being talked down to and I didnt like being advanced yet forced to take baby steps or go with everyone elses pace....

I am sorry if my explaination is a bit jumbled... my verbage is off today

Guidance instructor rather than master?

It is always more fun as an instructor to let the student "discover" things without being told "This doesn't work, instead you must do this." Ask the right questions, hint in the right direction, and a student will develop their own techniques that just happen to work correctly like mine because they have no figured out how to move their body correctly.

 

[Guardian]

I don't have room to say yay or nay to any system/style or anyone else.

A system/style is to each individuals own choice and who am I to say it's no good.

 

[suicide]

some people just think they got the answers to everything they feel like they ve reached the point were they are a 100%

until proven wrong , some will never be proven wrong because they are cowards they ll just sit back hide somewhere in the cut ( fourms ) and speak like the ulitmate net grandmasters.

all people can do is state there point of view but some lames feel as there words are the 10 commanments of MA

%-}

 

[BLACK LION]

I let those who come to me for direction choose thier own path... they forge thier own way by utilizing universal principles... I hold no patent on those. I find adaptation and improvisation being realized and put into motion much quicker when they are immersed and forced to swim.
I have found that humans learn by default much quicker.

 

[seasoned]

Perspective and point of view are an interesting thing.

One thing I've noticed here on MT is how many people are quick to harp on the McDojos. When I read thru those discussions, I get the impression that everyone contributing must be really hardcore and rock solid and deeply knowledgeable in their training. They all deride those who lower their standards, and sell belts, and whatnot.

But then, once in a while I'll see a Youtube clip or something, posted by one of these very same people. And what I see in that clip is, in my opinion, utter crap. Those same people who complain about how many schools lower their standards to a pathetic level, seem to me have done the very same thing that they complain about. Those who present themselves here on MT as very knowledgeable and accomplished, no longer appear to me to be so.

Everybody believes they are doing high quality martial arts. I doubt anyone would keep doing something if they felt that it was low quality. But everyone's standards and expectations are different. I'd bet that anyone here could find an example of someone else here on MT, who they thought was doing crap. And likewise, I'd bet that everyone here (myself included) could be viewed in the same way by yet another MT member. Maybe even the same people would look at each other and think that the other is doing crap, and their own standards are higher.

I guess a lot of it depends on the reason people are training. What they want to get out of it will largely dictate how they train. And if they are getting what they want, then I guess they must be praticing at a high level of quality for that purpose. This would be true even if I or anyone else personally thought that what they were doing sucked.

The moral of the story is, don't complain, then post what you preseve as being the right way. We all think of ourself as being more then what we are. Braggadocio was always put to the test on the floor, in my dojo.