Being all serious

[Balrog]

I believe that it will take as many hours as necessary. After all, we don't earn rank - rank earns us. We'll be a Black Belt when we are ready to be a Black Belt and not one minute earlier.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Minimum time in rank from white belt to black belt is very dependent upon the size of the curriculum. Within the KKW, schools are not restricted from adding to the curriculum. If I wanted to run a KKW school and teach all the hapkido that I know in addition to the KKW requirements, you'd be looking at a much longer period of time than say a WTF comp only school, simply because only but so much material can be taught in a given class.

Then there is the issue of how you want your school to be perceived by others in the MA community. If you are known for promoting students to BB in two years or less, be prepared to catch some heat, justified or not.

If you are known for three years or more to black belt, you will be perceived as having greater integrity, justified or not.

However, the KKW does not stipulate a time in grade for colored belts. They do, however, stipulate time in grade for dan grades. The time in grade is one year per current dan grade.

How closely the KKW pays attention to this I don't know; do they process the paperwork with the clearance of the check regardless or do they kick back applications that are early?

Also, there is a skip dan mechanism, though I do not know how it works.

With colored belts, I am less concerned about time in grade than I am with test results. I want to know that the students have attained proficiency in the colored belt curriculum, both the physical and the non physical, though in colored belts, I am far more concerned with the physical skills, primarily because they are the core of the system.

Once the student hits first dan, the time in grade is a lesson in itself. You won't have a promotion for at least a year. Can you handle it? Or will you quit because you're not getting a new belt every few months anymore? Are you using your time to deepen your knowledge of the art and to mature in your practice or are you just waiting around until a month or two before the next dan test to get serious?

And of course, whatever the organization stipulates for time in grade should be adhered to. I really don't care if someone else is too young or not been in grade as long as the KKW or any other org stipulates. I cannot control the ambitions of others or the integrity of the organization. I will adhere to my organizations time in grade requirements and maintain my school's integrity to the best of my ability. Students looking for a quick climb up the dan ladder will have to look to someone else. I teach kumdo, not taekwondo, but if I owned a taekwondo school, I would do the same.

The above of course, are my opinions.

Daniel

 

[shaunkwondo]

I think regardless of what you teach or how you teach; it's about quality, not quanity. You can practice 2 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 years and that doesn't mean you're ready to be a black belt.

I think many schools (any art) go wrong with setting such limits because it puts the student on a path they may be too short or too long of a journey for their individual aptitude for learning. We all learn at very different paces, so to say that 1500 hours or any specific amount of time is enough to earn your black belt is innacurate at best in my personal opinion.

I believe that if under proper instruction and depending on the aptitude and desire of the student; it's possible that one could attain their black belt in less than 3 years, and actually be deserving of it.

Generally speaking- I believe that most black belts probably earned their 1st Dan within 3-5 years, practicing at least 3 times per week. But I certainly don't think that there is a set amount of time that marks "long enough" for a student to attain their black belt.

 

[shaunkwondo]

Minimum time in rank from white belt to black belt is very dependent upon the size of the curriculum. Within the KKW, schools are not restricted from adding to the curriculum. If I wanted to run a KKW school and teach all the hapkido that I know in addition to the KKW requirements, you'd be looking at a much longer period of time than say a WTF comp only school, simply because only but so much material can be taught in a given class.

Then there is the issue of how you want your school to be perceived by others in the MA community. If you are known for promoting students to BB in two years or less, be prepared to catch some heat, justified or not.

If you are known for three years or more to black belt, you will be perceived as having greater integrity, justified or not.

However, the KKW does not stipulate a time in grade for colored belts. They do, however, stipulate time in grade for dan grades. The time in grade is one year per current dan grade.

How closely the KKW pays attention to this I don't know; do they process the paperwork with the clearance of the check regardless or do they kick back applications that are early?

Also, there is a skip dan mechanism, though I do not know how it works.

With colored belts, I am less concerned about time in grade than I am with test results. I want to know that the students have attained proficiency in the colored belt curriculum, both the physical and the non physical, though in colored belts, I am far more concerned with the physical skills, primarily because they are the core of the system.

Once the student hits first dan, the time in grade is a lesson in itself. You won't have a promotion for at least a year. Can you handle it? Or will you quit because you're not getting a new belt every few months anymore? Are you using your time to deepen your knowledge of the art and to mature in your practice or are you just waiting around until a month or two before the next dan test to get serious?

And of course, whatever the organization stipulates for time in grade should be adhered to. I really don't care if someone else is too young or not been in grade as long as the KKW or any other org stipulates. I cannot control the ambitions of others or the integrity of the organization. I will adhere to my organizations time in grade requirements and maintain my school's integrity to the best of my ability. Students looking for a quick climb up the dan ladder will have to look to someone else. I teach kumdo, not taekwondo, but if I owned a taekwondo school, I would do the same.

The above of course, are my opinions.

Daniel

Very well said!

 

[terryl965]

I think regardless of what you teach or how you teach; it's about quality, not quanity. You can practice 2 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 years and that doesn't mean you're ready to be a black belt.

I think many schools (any art) go wrong with setting such limits because it puts the student on a path they may be too short or too long of a journey for their individual aptitude for learning. We all learn at very different paces, so to say that 1500 hours or any specific amount of time is enough to earn your black belt is innacurate at best in my personal opinion.

I believe that if under proper instruction and depending on the aptitude and desire of the student; it's possible that one could attain their black belt in less than 3 years, and actually be deserving of it.

Generally speaking- I believe that most black belts probably earned their 1st Dan within 3-5 years, practicing at least 3 times per week. But I certainly don't think that there is a set amount of time that marks "long enough" for a student to attain their black belt.

Sir not to be dis-respectful or anything but anybody getting a B.B. in under three years coming tree days a week does not deserve one in my humble opinion. Lets do they actual time training in a 60 minutes class you are going to get about 40 minutes of actual training time x 3 days a week x an average of 48 weeks a year so that is 144 days x 40 minutes which equals out to so that equals to only two third of actual training time which equal 96 days, so a little over two weeks for a fulltime job and they are proficient enough to be consider a B.B.. I guess I look at things a little different than most, 3 years with some coming 4-6 days a week and training at least 2 hours per day is bare minium for me and my school.

Rememeber this is the opinion of the op me, myself an I and sometime I does not agree with us so he really does not count but for this instance he does, so we are counting him.

 

[shaunkwondo]

Sir not to be dis-respectful or anything but anybody getting a B.B. in under three years coming tree days a week does not deserve one in my humble opinion. Lets do they actual time training in a 60 minutes class you are going to get about 40 minutes of actual training time x 3 days a week x an average of 48 weeks a year so that is 144 days x 40 minutes which equals out to so that equals to only two third of actual training time which equal 96 days, so a little over two weeks for a fulltime job and they are proficient enough to be consider a B.B.. I guess I look at things a little different than most, 3 years with some coming 4-6 days a week and training at least 2 hours per day is bare minium for me and my school.

Rememeber this is the opinion of the op me, myself an I and sometime I does not agree with us so he really does not count but for this instance he does, so we are counting him.

No, of course. No disrespect felt. It's merely a discussion. However I think you misuderstood what I said. I said I believe it's possible for a student to earn their BB in less than three years. I did not specify," less than 3 years only 3 days a week for an hour per class".

Whether or not you choose to recognize a BB as deserving of their rank because they earned it in less time that you see fit could be your own loss, sir. There are some very gifted students and instructors out there. By all means, you have the right to your opinion and point of view as I have mine.

Respectfully.

 

[terryl965]

No, of course. No disrespect felt. It's merely a discussion. However I think you misuderstood what I said. I said I believe it's possible for a student to earn their BB in less than three years. I did not specify," less than 3 years only 3 days a week for an hour per class".

Whether or not you choose to recognize a BB as deserving of their rank because they earned it in less time that you see fit could be your own loss, sir. There are some very gifted students and instructors out there. By all means, you have the right to your opinion and point of view as I have mine.

Respectfully.

Just for the record I have never not recognized a B.B. rank that comes to my school, they can keep their rank but they need to go back and learn all my requirements as well. Yes I believe time in means some thing, whether or not it really does is up for debate. I also believe if someone has the talent alone that does not mean they are black belt material, they must also have that mental presence as well.

 

[dancingalone]

I believe that if under proper instruction and depending on the aptitude and desire of the student; it's possible that one could attain their black belt in less than 3 years, and actually be deserving of it.

Generally speaking- I believe that most black belts probably earned their 1st Dan within 3-5 years, practicing at least 3 times per week. But I certainly don't think that there is a set amount of time that marks "long enough" for a student to attain their black belt.

This has been debated several times in the recent past to my memory. I suggested this the last time as well: just post your curriculum along with the average time to black belt for your school. This way we all know what each one another is talking about.

In my opinion you can definitely achieve a meaningful black belt within 3 years or less, so long as the system is a simple one. I call these "punchy, kicky" systems. Nothing wrong with them at all, since they do work. But they do not require the same length of time to learn as systems that have grappling, weapons, or pattern analysis within them. Those that do just take longer to learn as a matter of fact.