Being a master

[Tony Dismukes]

is it possible the term master in english has bad connotations due to slavery ?

That's part of it. Even setting aside the association with chattel slavery, there's also the class-based master vs servant dichotomy which is another unfortunate aspect of history.

In addition, there's the connotation of "mastering" a skill meaning that you have completed your understanding of it with no room to progress.

All told, the various connotations in English add up so that it's not a title I would want applied to me.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Only Taekwondo used Master in my class we used Sifu

 

[oftheherd1]

On the other hand, in Korea I'm told they'll call any Dan holder "Master" so...

I never heard that, but then I left Korea in 1987, and maybe they have changed. I always thought of a Master as what you said before, 4th Dan, 5th and 6th as well, are referred to by the honorific Master. To my knowledge, that was true in both TKD and Hapkido.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My teacher has the title Shuseki Shihan, which corresponds with his 7th dan. I have no problem calling him that. I wouldn't like to call him "high master" (loosely translated) in English, and I'm quite sure he wouldn't want to be called that either. If I ever called him that in English, I'm sure he'd laugh and say "what the hell is wrong with you" or think I was being condescending.

"High Master" sounds like a Cheech and Chan movie.

 

[hoshin1600]

That's part of it. Even setting aside the association with chattel slavery, there's also the class-based master vs servant dichotomy which is another unfortunate aspect of history.

In addition, there's the connotation of "mastering" a skill meaning that you have completed your understanding of it with no room to progress.

All told, the various connotations in English add up so that it's not a title I would want applied to me.

in the trades we have master plumbers and master electricians and master carpenters, which like you say they have a complete understanding but that does not equal "no room to progress". in my thinking there is always more to learn.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

in the trades we have master plumbers and master electricians and master carpenters, which like you say they have a complete understanding but that does not equal "no room to progress". in my thinking there is always more to learn.

I think I don't object to those because the full title makes it clear what it's about. A Master Plumber is someone who has a specified level of knowledge and competence in a certain trade. Someone holding that qualification is highly unlikely to introduce himself as "Master Billy Bob" or expect someone to address him by his title or bow down to him or consider him as an authority on anything except plumbing issues. The same can't be said for a lot of people carrying around a "master" title in the martial arts.

 

[Tez3]

in the trades we have master plumbers and master electricians and master carpenters, which like you say they have a complete understanding but that does not equal "no room to progress". in my thinking there is always more to learn.

To call yourself a Master plumber etc etc here means you will have passed an apprenticeship and been a journeyman.
To become a Master Plumber you have to be a member (MCIPHE) or Fellow (FCIPHE) of the Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering and meet the minimum criteria below has been attained and clearly demonstrated :

• that they are a Member (MCIPHE) or Fellow (FCIPHE) of the CIPHE and also hold the description of 'Registered Plumber';
• that they are qualified to City & Guilds Advanced Craft Level or S/NVQ Level 3 or equivalent and be accepted for City & Guilds Licentiateship;
• that they are registered with ECuk at either Engineering Technician/ Incoporated Engineer or Chartered Engineer level;
• that they conform to the CIPHE's Code of Professional Standards while in membership of the Institute;
• that the applicant has been engaged in the industry for at least 10 years;
• that there are no significant complaints on the applicant's Institute record;
• that two nominated referees sign the application.

The Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering, the Worshipful Company of Plumbers and the City & Guilds of London Institute award the Certificate jointly. So, not exactly like getting a black belt or two! You would most likely have to join the Guild ( The Worshipful Company of Plumbers) as well. It's 650 years old so well versed in what being a Master is. The Worshipful Company of Plumbers

Other trades are the same, they also have centuries old Guilds. You can't be called a Master without their input even today. City of London Livery List (Alphabetical)

 

[Buka]

I don't really address anyone as Master any more, unless I'm goofing on them. The few who I used to address that way are all dead now. I figure any one who started the arts after I did ain't going to hear it from me. I'll just address them as Sir.

Over the last ten years or so, I've met some Young Master Much Faster, as we like to call them, and Grandmasters, who, when I think of that term now, makes me think of Jackie Gleason wearing his lodge hat.




I did try to get my wife to address me as Master. She poured soup on my head.

 

[hoshin1600]

I don't really address anyone as Master any more, unless I'm goofing on them. The few who I used to address that way are all dead now. I figure any one who started the arts after I did ain't going to hear it from me. I'll just address them as Sir.

Over the last ten years or so, I've met some Young Master Much Faster, as we like to call them, and Grandmasters, who, when I think of that term now, makes me think of Jackie Gleason wearing his lodge hat.

View attachment 21036


I did try to get my wife to address me as Master. She poured soup on my head.

Yes I told my wife to address me as Master. She had to bow down on all fours, ,,,,
As she screamed at me to "come out from under that bed, and fight like a man!!!"

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't really address anyone as Master any more, unless I'm goofing on them. The few who I used to address that way are all dead now. I figure any one who started the arts after I did ain't going to hear it from me. I'll just address them as Sir.

Over the last ten years or so, I've met some Young Master Much Faster, as we like to call them, and Grandmasters, who, when I think of that term now, makes me think of Jackie Gleason wearing his lodge hat.

View attachment 21036


I did try to get my wife to address me as Master. She poured soup on my head.

I get a kick out of it in Chinese Martial Arts.

Some folks in my taijiquan shifu's class decided that they should be calling him "Grandmaster"..... his response was "Stop it" followed by "there are no Grandmasters in China". Well there are, but it is only used if you are goofing on someone or trying to pick a fight. My taiji shifu prefers you use his first name, I am pretty much the only one that calls him Shifu these days.

The one that really gets me laughing (and once gave me the opportunity to confuse the living daylights out of someone using the title) is Shigong.... there are those that insist on being called Shigong, because they believe it means "Grandmaster". It means teacher's teacher, my shigong is Tung Ying Chieh. I once was able to say to a self-appointed Shigong.... "so...you're self taught then"... he did not get it then and I doubt he does today.


Oh and tell your wife she now needs to call you "Buka Shi Huangdi" (First Emperor Buka)

 

[Buka]

I get a kick out of it in Chinese Martial Arts.

Some folks in y taijiquan shifu's class decided that they should be calling him "Grandmaster"..... his response was "Stop it" followed by there are no Grandmasters in China. Well there are, but it is only used if you are goofing on someone or trying to pick a fight. My taiji shifu prefers you use his first name, I am pretty much the only one that calls him Shifu these days.

The one that really gets me laughing (and once gave me the opportunity to confuse the living daylights out of someone using the title) is Shigong.... there are those that insist on being called Shigong, because they believe it means "Grandmaster". It means teacher's teacher, my shigong is Tung Ying Chieh. I once was able to say to a self-appointed Shigong.... "so...you're self taught then"... he did not get it then and I doubt he does today.


Oh and tell your wife she now needs to call you "Buka Shi Huangdi" (First Emperor Buka)

I much prefer a title from The Stooges. I wanted her to call me Big Chief Apumtagribonitz. Instead, she addresses me as Jackface Turkey, which was a term from my old neighborhood. It means...well, Jackface Turkey.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I much prefer a title from The Stooges. I wanted her to call me Big Chief Apumtagribonitz. Instead, she addresses me as Jackface Turkey, which was a term from my old neighborhood. It means...well, Jackface Turkey.

I told my wife she needed to call me emperor once..... to be honest I am not exactly sure what all the Chinese that came out of her mouth meant.... all I caught was fengle...which means crazy......

 

[marques]

A master should be a good representative of the mastered thing, imo.
Nowadays it's a banalized term, as many others. Nowadays I only pay attention to Grandmasters. And very big grandmasters.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't care for the title "master" in martial arts. In English, at least, it sounds pretentious to my ears. "Grandmaster" is even worse.

If you train in an art where "master" is an official rank title (as in TKD), then I can't fault you for that, as long as you don't flaunt the title in people's faces.

I do train in Capoeira, where one of the upper rank titles is "Mestre", which translates to "master." That doesn't bug me so much, probably because I'm not a Portuguese speaker and don't know whether the term carries the same connotations in that language as it does in English.

I've always had the impression that the Portugege "Mestre" is equivalent to "Mastro" which does mean "Master" but carries more the connotation of "teacher."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You are a master if

- You have at least one technique that you can make it to work on anybody on earth.
- Anybody on earth who wants to learn that technique, they have to come to you.

 

[marques]

I've always had the impression that the Portugege "Mestre" is equivalent to "Mastro" which does mean "Master" but carries more the connotation of "teacher."

In fact, the first meaning I have for Mestre is teacher, especially a martial arts teacher. But it can also be a bricklayer (teacher or not) or someone with a master’s degree. I don’t associate at all Mestre to slavery. And Master (the word alone) would remind me first BDSM...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We have no such title. My own sensei is 9th dan, known and respected world-wide. He prefers sensei. He is also hanshi, which is a title that has some meaning, but he doesn't call himself that.

He has said that master is something others may call you, never something you call yourself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are a master if

- You have at least one technique that you can make it to work on anybody on earth.
- Anybody on earth who wants to learn that technique, they have to come to you.

Then there aren't any.

 

[Danny T]

Many call me Sifu cause I am the owner of the school.
Some people call me te fue. (in Acadiana French means 'you fool')
Sifu means teacher father or father teacher.
It is the head instructor or the owner of the school.
Has nothing to do with being highly skilled and mastery or of having any great specialized knowledge however, often the sifu happens to be one who is highly skilled and having high knowledge of the particular system of martial art being taught.

Many so called 'Titles' are but terms of endearment not titles. More like calling my uncle who's name is Joe, Uncle Joe.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

To me, there are 2 interpretations of the term "Master". Firstly, you can be a Master of Something, which to me implies you have gotten to the point where you cannot visibly improve your skills in whatever skill you are doing. Many people would argue that you can never truly master a Martial Art, because there is always room for improvement. However, there is another older meaning which is to be a Master of someone. If you are a Master of someone it means you not only teach them the skills, but you monitor their overall development, guide them, take care of them and take fully responsibility for them while they are under your care (almost like a father figure would). To be a Master of someone implies a much deeper connection than the standard teacher-student relationship, and requires much more dedication from both parties. That is why in China you would typically only study at a single school with a single Master, and it was considered a huge betrayal to leave your Master and go to someone else without their approval.

In my opinion, no matter which interpretation you use, there aren't many true Martial Arts Masters around these days. I also find it a little amusing when people think that being a Master of someone implies abject slavery and all the negative connotations that go with it, when if you look at the bdsm community, there are plenty of people who are in Master-Slave relationships of one form or another and live perfectly happy lives.