Barefoot practice of Chinese Martial Arts?

[Xue Sheng]

Well, it's up to me isn't it? Quick answer - I spent many years living in Boston and don't resonate with that city. I appreciate your kind recommendations of teachers based around my location, but with all due respect, you are assuming that I would immediately accept ANY teacher you recommend as my superior - you really know nothing of my level of ability as a martial artist.

Forgive me for trying to be helpful, I was not aware of your "superiority", forgive offense and my lowly uneducated mistake..... you have a nice day

 

[KabutoKouji]

K - Sorry, I come from years of training in a zen martial art and we learned to pay attention to this stuff. Some people despise this kind of conversation. To answer you - yes - this is exactly what I meant. It's different for every martial art - something about the focused 'INTENTION' seems to bring energy to the whole body. In your example, you have to very much 'intend' to hold Embrace the Moon for that length of time. It makes sense that your muscles, tendons, fascia, etc. would be affected, but a sustained, strong mind focus on what the body is doing always seems to produce an energizing effect. Thanks for the reply.

yeah of still stuff I might practice, say mabu, Embrace Moon or the 'pushing through the ground' (palms held out just in front and trying to 'feel' the 'bubbling wells'), Embrace Moon To Chest seems to definitely give me the most of the feeling afterwards. I think if anything is a hard and stretched type of stance it can give this feeling if prolonged. I remember I was at a Ba Gua Zang class and we were made hold a 'twin forearm knifehand guarding block' (in TKD parlance, I'm not sure what it's called in Chinese) in a low Si Li Bu type position for about 5 minutes - but REALLY stretched forward, almost in that kindof blocking with staff upright position. Anyway after this I definitely 'felt it'.

 

[Ben S]

wingerjim - You've sparked my interest in wing chun again. I've found a school in Portland ME (Portland Kung Fu) that seems well-liked and with a good lineage. It's 100 miles away, but I make the trip several times a year. I'm going to talk with them and get myself up there and try a lesson or two. Until I do, can you recommend a good video that I might use to get myself started? Something with forms and techniques presented clearly enough so that I could try and get a feel for the art before training with a real instructor? Thanks.

Wingerjim - thanks, but please disregard my request - I have found some good wing chun videos with which to get going. Have decided to permanently bail out on this forum - good luck with your wing chun training - all the best.

 

[wingerjim]

wingerjim - You've sparked my interest in wing chun again. I've found a school in Portland ME (Portland Kung Fu) that seems well-liked and with a good lineage. It's 100 miles away, but I make the trip several times a year. I'm going to talk with them and get myself up there and try a lesson or two. Until I do, can you recommend a good video that I might use to get myself started? Something with forms and techniques presented clearly enough so that I could try and get a feel for the art before training with a real instructor? Thanks.

It would depend on the lineage, but here is a good example of Sil Lim Tau, the first Wing Chun Form and the basis of all Wing Chun

 

[Xue Sheng]

It would depend on the lineage, but here is a good example of Sil Lim Tau, the first Wing Chun Form and the basis of all Wing Chun

I think that is the version of Sil LIm Tao that my last Shifu taught me, same lineage anyway

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've been practicing martial arts for 35 years, always barefoot - this is common to the Japanese and Korean martial arts styles I've trained in - Uechi Ryu, Hayashi Ha - Shito Ryu and Shim Gum Do ( a zen martial art).
I also practice yoga and live by the ocean - being barefoot is natural to me. MMA / UFC fighters also fight barefoot. I can't imagine training in shoes and after so many years, have adapted to practicing this way. For example - the bare foot will stick a bit to a varnished wooden floor, so I have learned over the years to lift my weight off a foot on which I am pivoting or turning, making it an integral part of how I move. I've recently become interested in baguazhang, which I always see performed in shoes. I'm a beginner to this art and am mainly doing circle walking with palm changes and of course, in bare feet. The sliding step in bagua takes a little more concentration in bare feet, but I am greatly enjoying the challenge! I am interested in your thoughts and experiences about practicing barefoot vs wearing shoes, especially in regard to the chinese martial arts.

I can't speak to the CMA, though that doesn't keep me off this branch of MT.

I teach a JMA, and we do normally train barefoot. Occasionally I have "street clothes" classes, and sometimes those include shoes (when I can work without mats - street shoes can be hell on them, and get them dirty). I personally train movement and strikes both with and without shoes. The dynamic differences are small, but are worth training. I make sure to practice in dress shoes some, so the leather soles don't cause me grief. I make sure to practice in grippy athletic shoes some, because those things don't slide as well as a foot on a mat (similar to your comment about how a bare foot grips hardwood).

If you are training for use outside the dojo/competition, it is important to at least occasionally put on clothes and footwear that are common for you, but different from the training uniform. Introduce that variation, and see what openings it provides, what it closes off, etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In the event you own a jet, you can fly around, and bomb people, but until then, you are limited to human motion, and it's limitations. Boots teach you to move wrongly.

Shoes with heels may encourage a heel-first touch, but not all shoes will do so. It's certainly possible to teach proper movement even in shoes with a slight elevation from toe to heel, it's just harder to feel the difference.

 

[geezer]

Well, I know a good Wing Chun school in Amesbury MA which is closer to Rockport ME than Boston, and it isn't a big city with that congested vibe, but I fear Ben has already left us. I would have responded sooner but I had to work this weekend.

Now about shoes. I have seriously messed up feet and ankles do to a combination of a congenital problem and injuries. When I was a little, skinny, lightweight kid I used to love running around barefoot. Now at nearly 62 and heavier, I depend on good shoes and orthotics to get through the work-day standing on a hard floor. So frankly, I'm glad to be able to wear supportive shoes training.

I have attended grappling classes working barefoot, and it typically aggravates my conditions or sprains my arthritic toes! If allowed I prefer to at least use wrestling shoes. If required to go barefoot, I'd find a way to make it work. Maybe tape would help? Anyway, we all deal with pain, right? On the other hand, after my knee surgeries, if I were required to sit in seiza, I'd choose to leave and not return.

 

[geezer]

Another observation regarding footwork -- In the branch of Ip Man Wing Chun I train, we do a heavily back weighted "dragging-step" that would be tough to pull off barefoot. But my old Chinese sifu was so good at it that he would demonstrate it on the grippy old astro-turf balcony adjoining his hotel room in his bathrobe, sipping tea and wearing flip-flops!

Yep, he would stay in this seemingly impossible, fully back-weighted stance ...and glide effortlessly in any direction, never slipping out of those flip flops. The guy had skills. That's gotta rank up there with Quai Chang Cain walking on rice paper!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, I know a good Wing Chun school in Amesbury MA which is closer to Rockport ME than Boston, and it isn't a big city with that congested vibe, but I fear Ben has already left us. I would have responded sooner but I had to work this weekend.

Already tried that, see post 60 for the response

 

[mograph]

Our group (old-school Hong Kong guys living in Toronto) practices in street clothes, ostensibly because Sifu is not into formality, possibly because he was taught that way, or because we're not an official club, or because the floors where we practice are not swept, or because we might as well learn to fight in the stuff we wear every day.

You know, I'll ask next week.

According to one of our senior students who is also a TCM practitioner, we don't wear uniforms because there is no tradition to do so among those in Master Chau's culture, at least. It's not that they don't wear uniforms for X reason, it's that they don't have X reason to wear uniforms ... or to practice in bare feet, bow, that sort of thing. Also, they had no desire to promote a school with t-shirts. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course.

According to the same student (others may correct me), the gi came about because daily clothing was expensive (all hand-made, no off-the-rack) so practitioners did not want to get their clothes dirty or ruin them in a training scuffle. The gi was durable, and could be washed by bleaching. It seemed to make sense.

By the way, we train a mix of Qigong, Yiquan and Xingyiquan. If we were younger, we'd probably learn Mizongyiquan.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

According to one of our senior students who is also a TCM practitioner, we don't wear uniforms because there is no tradition to do so among those in Master Chau's culture, at least. It's not that they don't wear uniforms for X reason, it's that they don't have X reason to wear uniforms ... or to practice in bare feet, bow, that sort of thing. Also, they had no desire to promote a school with t-shirts. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course.

According to the same student (others may correct me), the gi came about because daily clothing was expensive (all hand-made, no off-the-rack) so practitioners did not want to get their clothes dirty or ruin them in a training scuffle. The gi was durable, and could be washed by bleaching. It seemed to make sense.

By the way, we train a mix of Qigong, Yiquan and Xingyiquan. If we were younger, we'd probably learn Mizongyiquan.

That's the main reason I keep using a gi (though I've gone for black). I can buy one and wear it for years, or buy a lot of shirts. The gi is cheaper.

Oh and it looks cool, too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

According to one of our senior students who is also a TCM practitioner, we don't wear uniforms because there is no tradition to do so among those in Master Chau's culture, at least. It's not that they don't wear uniforms for X reason, it's that they don't have X reason to wear uniforms ... or to practice in bare feet, bow, that sort of thing. Also, they had no desire to promote a school with t-shirts. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course.

According to the same student (others may correct me), the gi came about because daily clothing was expensive (all hand-made, no off-the-rack) so practitioners did not want to get their clothes dirty or ruin them in a training scuffle. The gi was durable, and could be washed by bleaching. It seemed to make sense.

By the way, we train a mix of Qigong, Yiquan and Xingyiquan. If we were younger, we'd probably learn Mizongyiquan.

That is pretty much it for most Traditional Chinese martial arts, there is no tradition to wear uniforms and they always wear shoes.

My understanding about the shoes bit is a lot of the training in China is not in a brick and mortar school, it is outside or behind walls (no roof)

 

[mograph]

My understanding about the shoes bit is a lot of the training in China is not in a brick and mortar school, it is outside or behind walls (no roof)

Yeah. I don't think polished floors were a thing. Would be nice, though.

 

[mograph]

Boots teach you to move wrongly.

Well, maybe some of us.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yeah. I don't think polished floors were a thing. Would be nice, though.

You got me thinking, I think of all the places I trained CMA in the last 20 years only 1 had a polished floor and that was YMAA in Boston. Old unpolished floors, carpet, concrete, dirt, grass, parking lots and even a couple times on floors with mats down, but only a couple times on a polished floor.