Baguazhang Fighting Techniques?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

1. I can't prove that ghost exist -> my conclusion is that ghost doesn't exist.
2. I can't prove that ghost doesn't exist -> my conclusion is that ghost exist.

IMO, logic 1 makes more sense than logic 2.

That logic only works if either
A: The initial point is so ludicrous it needs proving. If I say that I can punch a hole through a tank, you need proof of this. That a martial art teaches you to fight needs less proof.
B: You would expect to see proof of it. If the tournament was created by bagua guys interested in marketing bagua, then the lack of them would suggest something. If it is a tournament for all of china, with over 100 different styles and 15 people attending...the lack of one style means a lot less. Again, I did not see hung gar or fu jow pai on either list, but those are the only two CMA styles that I personally know have good practitioners.

By using similarly flawed logic, I can make the assumption:
1. Hung gar is a good CMA, that produces good fighters
2. This tournament was open for all china, but there was no hung gar there.
3. Therefore, this tournament must have not had good fighters.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If it is a tournament for all of china, with over 100 different styles and 15 people attending....

There were over 200 competitors in both tournaments. Those 15 were the final winners.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have 2 BG tournament fighting clips here. Those 2 BG fighters came from Korea. The BG circle walking was used in the 1st clip.

The head punch is not allowed in this tournament. It proves that the full power body shot may not be that effective as people may want to believe.

just adding another

Unique perspective here

 

[Flying Crane]

1. I can't prove that ghost exist -> my conclusion is that ghost doesn't exist.
2. I can't prove that ghost doesn't exist -> my conclusion is that ghost exist.

IMO, logic 1 makes more sense than logic 2.

Sorry, that is a rediculous comparison.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There were over 200 competitors in both tournaments. Those 15 were the final winners.

I misunderstood then. I think the point still stands though, as there was no bagua people competing at all from your other post.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There were over 200 competitors in both tournaments. Those 15 were the final winners.

So then only those martial arts are capable of fighting..... of all the Martial arts that come from China.....sorry, no, it does not work that way.
No Shuaijiao fighters so they cannot fight, no Wing Chun so they cannot fight, no tiger so they cannot fight, no Hakka styles so they cannot fight, no Baji so they cannot fight.... do you see the flaw here in your logic

 

[JowGaWolf]

Go back in Chinese history and it was a good style for dealing with multiple attackers.

I never thought of it that way, but, ... yeah that's how people look when faced with multiple attackers, they have that same walk but less refined and less controlled.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I quickly defaulted back to using baguazhang (along with yoga and qigong) for its beneficial effects on my health, energy, balance and proprioception.

This is what confuses me ALL THE TIME. If you train your martial arts as a health system then you'll only get 50% health benefits. If you train it like a fighting system then you'll get 100% health benefits. This is what you miss out on when you only train a system for health.

1. Proper fighting structure that engages muscles differently and requires more use of those muscles.
2.. Muscle strengthening through resistance when you are trying to hit a moving target you have to put more effort into it (aka work harder).
3. Mental development through timing and awareness.
4. Visual development through timing and awareness
5. Emotional development for dealing with actions that trigger stress (aggression). Think of sparring as practice on how to deal with physical aggression.
6. Reflex development in the form of unplanned footwork and avoidance. I used to do a lot of hiking. Hiking in the woods requires the mind to be more active and alert than walking on the street. Not only does the mind need to be alert but the body needs to be alert as you walk on uneven surfaces.. With sparring you aren't reacting to a pre-planned movements like a dance routine. With sparring you don't know what is coming at you until you see the movement.
7. Burn more calories.
8. People who train to fight also do other strength building and cardio exercises.

Keep in mind that sparring doesn't have to be brutal in order to get a good workout. For me if someone really wanted to get the most out of Martial Arts health, they would train with the purpose of being able to fight with what they are training. People should train yoga for the purpose of getting stronger. That stuff is tuff.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I like to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I prefer to train fighting skill, at the same time I can also get the health benefit.

You'll actually get more health benefit. Training fighting skills is the healthy party. Getting into real fights is the unhealthy part. You'll be in the best shape ever as long as you can avoid the real fights that take a beating, and as long as sparring is not brutal.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So then only those martial arts are capable of fighting..... of all the Martial arts that come from China.....sorry, no, it does not work that way.
No Shuaijiao fighters so they cannot fight, no Wing Chun so they cannot fight, no tiger so they cannot fight, no Hakka styles so they cannot fight, no Baji so they cannot fight.... do you see the flaw here in your logic

No Jow Ga fighters either,, so I'm busted. I can't fight. All this time I've been "faking the funk." lol

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This is what confuses me ALL THE TIME. If you train your martial arts as a health system then you'll only get 50% health benefits. If you train it like a fighting system then you'll get 100% health benefits. This is what you miss out on when you only train a system for health.

1. Proper fighting structure that engages muscles differently and requires more use of those muscles.
2.. Muscle strengthening through resistance when you are trying to hit a moving target you have to put more effort into it (aka work harder).
3. Mental development through timing and awareness.
4. Visual development through timing and awareness
5. Emotional development for dealing with actions that trigger stress (aggression). Think of sparring as practice on how to deal with physical aggression.
6. Reflex development in the form of unplanned footwork and avoidance. I used to do a lot of hiking. Hiking in the woods requires the mind to be more active and alert than walking on the street. Not only does the mind need to be alert but the body needs to be alert as you walk on uneven surfaces.. With sparring you aren't reacting to a pre-planned movements like a dance routine. With sparring you don't know what is coming at you until you see the movement.
7. Burn more calories.
8. People who train to fight also do other strength building and cardio exercises.

Keep in mind that sparring doesn't have to be brutal in order to get a good workout. For me if someone really wanted to get the most out of Martial Arts health, they would train with the purpose of being able to fight with what they are training. People should train yoga for the purpose of getting stronger. That stuff is tuff.

I see 2 reasons for this. The first is a fear of injuring yourself, which might or might not be legitimate. The second, which IMO is more common, is training to fight is more work. Training for 'health' means you don't have to put in as much effort, it's okay if you're not perfect with your movements, and you don't have to worry about a lot of the stress involved with fighting, or trying to improve yourself (if it's just "for health" there's no improvement that needs to be made).

 

[JowGaWolf]

if it's just "for health" there's no improvement that needs to be made

I guess my mind set is from me playing sports. Because even with health it's always a goal to improve. To be able to:

• Run longer in time or distance
• lift more weight or do more reps
• move faster or move slower
• to lose more weight or to gain more weight

For health purposes I don't want to be the same fitness level as I was when I started. I always want to have some kind of improvement. Even when things get to the point of where I'm not able to do as much as I did before. There is always something that can be improved. For the things that can't be improved the it becomes more of a maintenance issue where I'm trying to reduce the degrading abilities / capabilities that naturally come with being getting older.

For me there is always a next level for mental, physical, or emotional improvement. The only time I should stop trying to make these gains is when I get lazy (which is now) or when I can no longer do anything.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The first is a fear of injuring yourself, which might or might not be legitimate.

This is definitely a big fear when it comes to sparring. For some reason people have the most horrific image and fear of being hit or kicked by someone else. You woud think we were asking them suit up to go clean drug dealers and gang members out of a neighborhood by hand.