Barefoot practice of Chinese Martial Arts?

[Ben S]

I started in Jujutsu and TDK which was bear foot, but I have been wearing shoes training Chinese martial arts for over 20 years and all of that time has been in street clothes or sweats. I will admit when I started with my first shifu I expected to have to take my shoes off, but since he held the first class in the parking lot next to his school I was pretty happy we kept out shoes on. And when we moved inside, since he never had anyone remove thier shoes, I was pretty happy to keep them on there too.

And since I have trained in all sorts of weather on just about every terrain I have been rather happy wearing shoes. A year ago winter I was doing bagua circle walking in my garage and it was well below freezing out side so I am good with shoes, boots, sneakers, dress shoes, just about any foot wear. Use to train Police/military Sanda with my shifu at lunch during work and outside on concrete and even once during a thunderstorm.

Also, doing bagua circle walking, in sneakers, on a carpet, can take a lot of concentration too. My last Bagua Shifu school was carpeted.

I also do a little yoga, but that is in bare feet...just never in my garage in the winter .

I practice in my wife's yoga studio and outside on the beach - but because of shoes you definitely have more options and versatility in your practice - I guess deep down, it's more about personal expression and feel than anything else.

 

[mograph]

Sounds like you guys are real world martial artists - what style / art do you train?

Xingyi and Yiquan, mostly, with a bit of Chin Na. The group is a bit ad-hoc, like the classic "old-guy-in-his-garage" thing. Real-world? I'd say we're more about "foundation-foundation-foundation" in order to train reaction and unification of effort. We do a lot of Zhan Zhuang, and right now, I'm doing it with a group of TCM students and practitioners, so it has more of a qigong bent. The process is really slow, but I think that the implication is that the practice will stay with you no matter what moves you learn somewhere else.

 

[mograph]

May I ask what club you attend?

No club, just a guy: William Chau. He has taught at various locations (gyms, churches), and he only teaches either students of a TCM school, or people who are recommended by his senior students (that's me, sort of). Since he's pretty much retired, he kind of does what he wants. He has an entry in Liang Shou-yu's book under "Dachengchuan." Good guy, and the lineage holder from Jingwu for Mijongyi (or however it's spelled!).

About five years ago, at the church, we were standing (going for 45 minutes), and my wife felt a bit woozy, so she sat down. Sifu left the room, and about five minutes later came back with a box of crackers he had just bought down the street. He handed her some crackers and advised her to eat them. Kind fella.

 

[Ben S]

Xingyi and Yiquan, mostly, with a bit of Chin Na. The group is a bit ad-hoc, like the classic "old-guy-in-his-garage" thing. Real-world? I'd say we're more about "foundation-foundation-foundation" in order to train reaction and unification of effort. We do a lot of Zhan Zhuang, and right now, I'm doing it with a group of TCM students and practitioners, so it has more of a qigong bent. The process is really slow, but I think that the implication is that the practice will stay with you no matter what moves you learn somewhere else.

Sounds excellent - I recently discovered Zhan Zhuang and think it's one of the best kept secrets of all energy arts. People are visually-oriented and there's nothing gained in 'watching' someone in Wu Chi stance so they move on without ever trying it. But practice it yourself every day and it doesn't take long - it opens a vast world of understanding, especially in teaching grounding and moving the body calmly, as a complete and relaxed unit, through your martial art - a supreme benefit for me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I practice in my wife's yoga studio and outside on the beach - but because of shoes you definitely have more options and versatility in your practice - I guess deep down, it's more about personal expression and feel than anything else.

It is whatever works for you and whatever your Shifu wants. My Taiji shifu is old school and we always wore shoes and whatever clothes we showed up in.

 

[wingerjim]

I've been practicing martial arts for 35 years, always barefoot - this is common to the Japanese and Korean martial arts styles I've trained in - Uechi Ryu, Hayashi Ha - Shito Ryu and Shim Gum Do ( a zen martial art).
I also practice yoga and live by the ocean - being barefoot is natural to me. MMA / UFC fighters also fight barefoot. I can't imagine training in shoes and after so many years, have adapted to practicing this way. For example - the bare foot will stick a bit to a varnished wooden floor, so I have learned over the years to lift my weight off a foot on which I am pivoting or turning, making it an integral part of how I move. I've recently become interested in baguazhang, which I always see performed in shoes. I'm a beginner to this art and am mainly doing circle walking with palm changes and of course, in bare feet. The sliding step in bagua takes a little more concentration in bare feet, but I am greatly enjoying the challenge! I am interested in your thoughts and experiences about practicing barefoot vs wearing shoes, especially in regard to the chinese martial arts.

Since I am at the opposite end of the spectrum so to speak, having only studied Chinese MA, I cannot imagine practicing my art barefoot. Not sure there are any HUGE pro or cons either way. I like training with shoes especially living in Ohio if I have to use my art it will likely be with shoes on.

 

[Ben S]

Since I am at the opposite end of the spectrum so to speak, having only studied Chinese MA, I cannot imagine practicing my art barefoot. Not sure there are any HUGE pro or cons either way. I like training with shoes especially living in Ohio if I have to use my art it will likely be with shoes on.

I understand - it's a non-issue with most people I think - for me, I suppose it comes from beginning martial arts that way with Japanese and Korean styles and from yoga too. I can't imagine practicing any other way and now that I'm interested in Chinese arts like Baguazhang and talking with some teachers, I make a point to ask if it's OK before taking a lesson - lol.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I practice bare footed, wrestling shoes, cross trainers, shoes, boots, and sandals.
On the matted floor either bare footed or wrestling shoes. On the wooden floor cross trainers and at times we will wear different footwear like dress shoes, boots, or sandals. Outside training area I usually wear cross trainers or sandals. (I wear sandals most of the year)

This is a good approach and well rounded. I find myself in dress shoes, boots, cross trainers, wrestling shoes, sandals and yes barefoot. So training in all of the above is good in my opinion! At home, in the pool, on the beach I am probably barefoot. So training barefoot is important as well! The rest of the time I will be in some kind of shoe or sandal. So knowing how to move in everything I wear is essential as well!

As to training in shoes I don't think you will have any problem! It really is not hard.

 

[oaktree]

Hey Ben what style of Baguazhang are you doing? Sounds like maybe gao or Cheng?

 

[Ben S]

Hey Ben what style of Baguazhang are you doing? Sounds like maybe gao or Cheng?

I can't pretend to be doing actual baguazhang, since I have no teacher. I hope to study with Tina Zhang in NYC this year, since her book has helped me get started - she practices Cheng style.

 

[oaktree]

I can't pretend to be doing actual baguazhang, since I have no teacher. I hope to study with Tina Zhang in NYC this year, since her book has helped me get started - she practices Cheng style.

I started off with a teacher who only taught me circle walking then I met my teacher who taught me form and application. Circle walk around a tree practice 站桩 rotation comes from 丹田 and 命门。 the spine and 脏腑 are also moving. Baguazhang strengthens the 经络。

 

[Flying Crane]

We do a lot of very deliberate pivoting, that actively grinds the foot into the ground for rooting. If done barefoot, that will rip up your feet. In our method, lifting the food to turn destroys your root. I'm not in bagua, but there are reasons to not train in bare feet.

 

[Ben S]

We do a lot of very deliberate pivoting, that actively grinds the foot into the ground for rooting. If done barefoot, that will rip up your feet. In our method, lifting the food to turn destroys your root. I'm not in bagua, but there are reasons to not train in bare feet.

I am always pivoting and never rip my feet - but of course you're right - I AM lifting my foot each time I pivot, so there is a slight interruption in my grounding. I do a lot of Zhan Zhuang for that very reason - training in grounding. In my style, I try to move with a lot of flow, so the slight interruption in grounding is quick enough that it doesn't concern me - I'll always train in bare feet.

 

[Flying Crane]

I am always pivoting and never rip my feet - but of course you're right - I AM lifting my foot each time I pivot, so there is a slight interruption in my grounding. I do a lot of Zhan Zhuang for that very reason - training in grounding. In my style, I try to move with a lot of flow, so the slight interruption in grounding is quick enough that it doesn't concern me - I'll always train in bare feet.

The reason we do it the way we do is because we are driving a rotation of the torso. Any lifting of the feet will undermine that powerful rotation, which powers our technique. It is very deliberate, and there is a right way to do it, and if you shortcut or alter it because of a shoeless preference, you will rob yourself of the benefits of the method. Again, I don't do bagua so I am cannot comment on those methods. But understand that there are genuine reasons to do things a certain way.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I look forward to having 12 years experience in circle walking! But I always think of my feet and what they're doing.

I pay attention to my feet as well. I'm always telling students to be aware of how their feet make contact with the ground and how their weight shifts on their feet. I tell them this even when we are running during warm up. I don't know if it sticks with them, but maybe one day they will understand the importance of it when they are sparring.

 

[KabutoKouji]

I train in Feiyues and I have to say coming from barefoot TKD it did take me a while to get used to the grippiness (as in 'real life' obv you are likely to be wearing shoes). Having said that, Feiyues on grippy jigsaw rubber mats is unrealistically grippy I think.

 

[Ben S]

I pay attention to my feet as well. I'm always telling students to be aware of how their feet make contact with the ground and how their weight shifts on their feet. I tell them this even when we are running during warm up. I don't know if it sticks with them, but maybe one day they will understand the importance of it when they are sparring.

Barefoot or shoes, I think attention to the feet is everything as a martial artist.

 

[Ben S]

Flying Crane is certainly right about your style dictating whether or not you wear shoes. I love hearing from other martial artists and talking about this stuff. Maybe this is too esoteric, but there's also the energy connection to the floor or earth when you're barefoot. If you are trying to cultivate energy as an internal artist, this can be a factor. Jinho Lee (Key to Internal Arts) says that if I am barefoot and you are not, gravity will affect us equally and this is true. But say we're on wet ground and lightning strikes - I'm barefoot and KabutoKouji is wearing Feiyues, he will be safe and I will be electrocuted!
The point being that we are energy and there is some electrical connection to the floor or earth when you're barefoot, though I wouldn't claim to be able to harness it (yet - lol).

 

[Xue Sheng]

Flying Crane is certainly right about your style dictating whether or not you wear shoes. I love hearing from other martial artists and talking about this stuff. Maybe this is too esoteric, but there's also the energy connection to the floor or earth when you're barefoot. If you are trying to cultivate energy as an internal artist, this can be a factor. Jinho Lee (Key to Internal Arts) says that if I am barefoot and you are not, gravity will affect us equally and this is true. But say we're on wet ground and lightning strikes - I'm barefoot and KabutoKouji is wearing Feiyues, he will be safe and I will be electrocuted!
The point being that we are energy and there is some electrical connection to the floor or earth when you're barefoot, though I wouldn't claim to be able to harness it (yet - lol).

Yang Jwing Ming is a proponent of root training and that is done in shoes on the ground first, then on one set of bricks to get you off the ground to work on rooting through the bricks and eventually ending up on 2 or 3 sets of bricks to gain a better root. Rooting is important to CMA, and I have done this training. However one must be careful to not end up double rooted which would make moving more difficult. This of course can be done barefooted as well, but the goal is working on root by getting you off the ground so you can deepen your root.

Also bagua mud stepping, done outside, in concrete of regular earth can be rough on the feet without shoes, due to the step and the occasional pivot. However, again, you can do this barefooted, you just have to be very careful in the beginning until you build up enough calluses on your feet.

 

[KabutoKouji]

emm I realise my post didn't make much sense - I was saying that I'm glad I got used to kicking in the shoes