Bad wallstreet occupyer behavior

[Makalakumu]

I am turning into my father, though.

When he was a young man, he had to ride a bicycle to get work; he worked as a janitor at Caterpillar Tractor in Peoria, Illinois. The union went on strike; they picketed the plant. He rode in through the gates with a baseball bat on his handlebars, ready for someone to try to stop him from going to work. They didn't. When he used to tell that story, I never understood what the point of it was; now I do.

When I was a boy, my dad and I were out and about for some reason, and the United Farm Workers were on strike against Gallo wineries. The local unions were in solidarity and blocked access to the local liquor store. My dad was going in to pick up his usual Pabst Blue Ribbon, and some burly construction workers blocked us and said he could not go in if he was going to buy Gallo wine products. I don't recall exactly what my dad said, but he was mad; they let him in. He never drank wine, but he bought his Pabst and a gallon of some cheap Gallo plonk and carried it out of the store out of the bag. He did not say a word; neither did the construction workers. But I understood that things were very, very, tense. In the car, my dad said to me through gritted teeth, "Nobody tells me what I can or cannot buy with my own money." I didn't understand that at the time either, and now I do.

We were in Chicago one summer; my dad was working and he brought me along; we went to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field. Later, we went to some shopping district, I don't know what it was. But my dad accidentally crossed a picket line; I didn't even see the picketers until the signs they were carrying were waved in our faces; it was just crowded and hard to tell where the picket line actually was. Some guy shoved my dad back; then he waved his sign like it was a sword. Another guy tried to swing his sign at my dad's head like a baseball bat. I remember seeing my dad's fist swing into the first guy's face; I remember seeing the teeth scattered on the ground like Chiclets. Then my dad grabbed my hand and hustled me away. I don't remember what the sign said, what they were protesting, nothing. I only remember they attacked my dad for crossing some invisible line that neither of knew was there, and he dealt with it. I didn't even remember that incident for years, and when I did, my dad would not talk about it. I get that, too.

My dad never went looking for trouble. And for the most part, trouble did not come looking for him. But he went where he wanted to go, shopped where he wanted to shop, bought what he felt like buying and he only got angry when people told him what he could and could not do based on their objections to it, or actually threatened him. Then he responded, simply and directly. Yup. I understand the old man a bit better now.

"If you won't stand up with others, they won't stand up with you." This is something my grandfather taught me when I was a young boy. I remember sitting down next to him at the American Legion while he talked with his Union friends and he took the time to translate adult conversation for really young ears. "Find some common ground and give your support, because that is what keeps the country moving in a good direction."

The bottom line is that if you wait to give your support to a group of people whom you agree with 100%, you'll wait a LONG time. And you'll watch one of two things. Someone else will do something you care about. Or no one will do it.

 

[billc]

Sorry Makalakumu, I am not going to support these groups who move in the same circles, willingly, with anti-jewish, and pro-communist groups. These aren't just small groups jumping into the protests, they are big chunks of the movement. I also don't hate wealthy people, and so you know, I am not wealthy myself. If you want to fix the system here are some things that will help:

--end the use of the term senator/congressman, because it just makes the corrupt politicians think they are different from the rest of the masses
--END CONGRESSIONAL PENSIONS, THUS ELIMINATING 20-30 YEAR SEAT HOLDING IN CONGRESS
--put in term limits. I know a lot of people think that elections are enough, but I don't think that is the case. 2 terms for congress, 1 term for senate, that way we can limit the damage any particular corrupt politician can do.

The above reforms will hopefully keep the protestors from moving on to greater violence.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

"If you won't stand up with others, they won't stand up with you." This is something my grandfather taught me when I was a young boy. I remember sitting down next to him at the American Legion while he talked with his Union friends and he took the time to translate adult conversation for really young ears. "Find some common ground and give your support, because that is what keeps the country moving in a good direction."

The bottom line is that if you wait to give your support to a group of people whom you agree with 100%, you'll wait a LONG time. And you'll watch one of two things. Someone else will do something you care about. Or no one will do it.

That has zero to do with anything I said.

 

[Makalakumu]

That has zero to do with anything I said.

Think about it some more. I've seen plenty of people like you and your old man. It's easy to shut off the outside world and pursue your own agenda, but that puts a lot of trust in others to keep that path clear for you. It's a form of the Entitlement mentality that assumes that other people will do the good work for you. It's something to think about and it's directly related to everything you said above.

 

[Makalakumu]

Sorry Makalakumu, I am not going to support these groups who move in the same circles...

You don't know what circles the protesters move in because you've only seen them on the skewing and lying TV. In my experience, people across the political spectrum are standing up and shouting.

 

[billc]

You forgot the word "ineffectively" between "are," and "standing." Makalakumu, you should grab up a bunch of your protestor buddies and others and actually go and protest at the homes of Pelosi, Reid, Durbin, Obama, Frank and Dodd. You might actually achieve something then.

 

[Big Don]

Oh noes, not Commies ... Bill, I confess I am surprised as I thought you were a more intelligent man than that. .

I confess, Suke, I thought you were more intelligent.
The Communists DO support these idiots.

 

[Makalakumu]

If someone is watching and talking....Mission Accomplished!

 

[Tez3]

I confess, Suke, I thought you were more intelligent.
The Communists DO support these idiots.

All communists everywhere and all over the world or just the American communists...all ten of them?

 

[billc]

Our local commies are bad enough, but I have to think the commies around the world would support their commie brothers and sisters here in the states. At least until they purged them.

 

[Big Don]

All communists everywhere and all over the world or just the American communists...all ten of them?

That the national communist party, however many their members, supports these fools, gives lie to Suke's "Oh noes".

 

[Tez3]

Our local commies are bad enough, but I have to think the commies around the world would support their commie brothers and sisters here in the states. At least until they purged them.

What about the Roman Catholic Communists in Italy or the Buddhist communists in Thailand? The Hindu Communists in India?
You generalise about communism, the left and the right, as I said, you only see things in black and white missing the truth about the world. Anything you don't believe in is labelled left wing, communist and oh so wrong, your beliefs however are beyond reproach so is sacrosanct in your eyes. One day methinks, you will have realy rude awakening when your precious right wing turns out to be as human as the rest of us.

 

[billc]

The "religous" communists are fortunate that they live in a time where the communists hold no real power. If they did the "religous" communists would be the first in the gulags and death camps.

 

[Tez3]

The "religous" communists are fortunate that they live in a time where the communists hold no real power. If they did the "religous" communists would be the first in the gulags and death camps.

If you say so, educating you on European history, beliefs and politics would be an onerous job but I'd gladly do it if only to stop you repeating propaganda and actually make you do some real research. To go through life blinkered is a great pity. To think something cannot be because you don't wish it to be so is a dangerous way of thinking.

 

[Big Don]

If you say so, educating you on European history, beliefs and politics would be an onerous job but I'd gladly do it if only to stop you repeating propaganda and actually make you do some real research. To go through life blinkered is a great pity. To think something cannot be because you don't wish it to be so is a dangerous way of thinking.

Communism is a failure as a system. Can you show one nation whose populace prospered under communism? Or one communist nation that didn't have mass purges?

 

[Sukerkin]

That the national communist party, however many their members, supports these fools, gives lie to Suke's "Oh noes".

I think you missed my point, Don (tho' that may be my fault as it was one of my infamous late night postings when self-expression and tact are at low ebb ).

I was referencing the overly strong instinctive reactions that the mere mention of the word Communist (cue scary background music) evokes from Americans of a certain age {which tends to be 'our' age as we're the generation or two that grew up in the Cold War}. It's one of those examples of how 'demonising' the enemy has a lasting effect and it's a very negative road to follow as such inflexible 'ideological purity' is not very useful when circumstances change in the Real Politik arena that is the world.

Happily we never got so indoctrinated about communism, over here in the unsinkable aircraft carrier, despite the likelihood that we, were the ones most likely to receive a nuclear "Hello" if the Cold war had ever turned hotter (without going straight to "Do you want to play Global Thermonuclear War?"). That's also despite the fact that it was only the First World War that diverted a Bolshevik uprising in this country.

Anyhoo, what I was getting is what I generally try to get at i.e. you are all intelligent and/or well educated men/women and it pains me when these threads are full to the brim with the stench of political 'testosterone'. It turns what could be interesting and productive discussions into something quite unpleasant and not a little disturbing (you fellows being representatives of our closest ally over the past century).

 

[Tez3]

I agree totally with Sukerkin, this fear of communism is strange to say the least.

Communist country without 'purges' and prospered? Grenada- no deaths there until the American invasion.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I agree totally with Sukerkin, this fear of communism is strange to say the least.

Communist country without 'purges' and prospered? Grenada- no deaths there until the American invasion.

That wasn't a little 'peaceful' nation though.

On 13 October 1983, a party faction led by Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard seized power. Bishop was placed under house arrest. Mass protests against the action led to Bishop escaping detention and reasserting his authority as the head of the government. Bishop was eventually captured and murdered along with several government officials loyal to him. The army under Hudson Austin then stepped in and formed a military council to rule the country. The Governor-General of Grenada, Paul Scoon, was placed under house arrest. The army announced a four-day total curfew where anyone seen on the streets would be subject to summary execution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

 

[Tez3]

That wasn't a little 'peaceful' nation though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

And the USA is?
You don't have people bumping off your Presidents and civil leaders? You've got mass protests now lol! Your National Guard has shot students protesting before.

The point is no country is above reproach, no political system perfect, we've all got things we wish hadn't happened or we would change but this fear of communism is irrational.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

And the USA is?
You don't have people bumping off your Presidents and civil leaders? You've got mass protests now lol! Your National Guard has shot students protesting before.

The point is no country is above reproach, no political system perfect, we've all got things we wish hadn't happened or we would change but this fear of communism is irrational.

# US Presidents assassinated: 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots

We had mass protests in the 60's and 70's. That's 40 years ago.
Kent State Massacres were in 1970.

Not saying 'above reproach' but theres a difference between these things. I'm unaware of anywhere in the US where there is a curfew with a death sentence attached.
We also haven't whisked away our senior military and other heads of state and 'vanished them'. The USSR, Cuba and other communist nations however...did.