Backbone to self defense

[Zepp]

Than what is the backbone of self-defense I have already put down my oppinion

OC Kid and I stated near the beginning of the thread that we believe awareness, staying in control, and keeping a clear mind to be the "backbone" of self-defense. I still have the same opinion.

 

[Bod]

Sparring develops the correct stimulus-response loop.

One of the worst thing you can do (in fighting) is take your skills and apply them in the wrong context. Or note the stimulus, process it,and try to devise a response - way too slow.

Basics are about response. Better responses.

Sparring is about fitting that response to a stimulus in real time. You should do it at the greatest speed and power possible for safety. Playing at 'winning' within a defined set of rules makes this sporty sparring fun.

Another element of sparring is trying to elicit a greater range of stimuli (positional and movement), so you can look for new responses. This generally should be done slower, for safety reasons. Just make sure that attacker and defender slow down. It's not about winning it's about discovering your weaknesses.

One of the great dangers of sparring is that you can get locked into sparring 'rules' which never get investigated. That's why the Gracies were so successful. One of the most pervasive sparring rules of MA schools from the 60s to the late 80s was 'it must look like a Bruce Lee movie'. The other was 'thou shalt not throw', and 'thou shalt not wrestle on the ground'.

Other constricting rules are 'thou shalt not jump into somebody elses sparring session without invitation', 'though shalt not snap fingers' and so on. They make sparring safe, but SD is about training for danger, not training for safety.

I suggest sparring with rules most of the time, but also investigating what could happen if those rules were broken, and sparring as if they could be. In Judo for instance you are not allowed to put a finger or thumb inside your opponent's dogi because there is another rule that says, 'if they do put their fingers in you dogi, you may not spin your wrist and break their fingers'.

When I come to grips in Judo, I do so in a way that should prevent some punching and kicking. I don't take grips that open me up to a rib shot, or a kick in the unmentionables. When I box I keep my stance low as if grappling. It looks more like kung fu, and slows me down, but if my opponent was to change his mind and start wrestling me, I'd still have half a chance.

What I do isn't perfect and remains safe, but it I try to keep it open minded.

So, to sum up: Sparring is to fit your basics with a given stimulus or to investigate new possibilities of being attacked, so you can go away and train a response to such an attack.

 

[ppko]

OC Kid and I stated near the beginning of the thread that we believe awareness, staying in control, and keeping a clear mind to be the "backbone" of self-defense. I still have the same opinion.

I totally agree with that.

 

[Brother John]

Again I will ask, what is the role of sparring?

IMHO:

To acclimate (Mentally, then physically) one to giving & taking rough physical contact.
To force one to make a response under hightened stress levels w/out time to plan.
To force one to reach down deep inside and keep going while hurt or extremely fatigued.

These are the best things about sparring, I think; and these aid a martial artist in their ability to execute spontaneously under the worst of circumstances. These are what make it an important element of one's training.... but far too often it takes center stage, which is wrong. There are things about this form of training, short-comings, that make an over emphasis here a detrement instead of helping a martial artist.

Those who spar just to spar are only good at sparring.

Your Brother
John

 

[ShenChuan_Ninja]

Its repetition of basic self defense techniques. The ability to react to a situation where say a person grabs you or pushes you and strikes at you with a club. To say that sparring is the end all of SD IMO is not correct. I tell my students never to bang with someone. take them out and take them out quick. The longer the fight goes the more likely of them losing becomes more and more a reality.
BTW I also teach them there are only 2 reasons to fight life and money(in the ring). everything else is a waist.

The end result of a actual self defense situation is not to win but to survive.

/QUOTE

I agree with this statement whole heartedly. In my school, sparring is a ruff experience. We don't do point sparring, more like Muy Thai or K-1 fighting is best i can describe it. I have been in many fighting situations since i attend a rough High School. Not one of them started, or ended with me squared off sparring someone. Most are 10-20 seconds tops. Usually they tend to either "wind-mill" or try and tackle. Also, if it is a seriously dangerous situation, squaring off and getting ready to kickbox a guy might get you stabbed, and or jumped from behind. Also, how many fighters on the street know martial arts? When sparring, you most likely are sparring with someone who has had some experience in martial arts. People with experience move, attack, and evade alot more differently than someone on the street.

I believe sparring helps you learn to take a punch, but thats about as far as it goes regarding SD.

 

[loki09789]

The "backbone" of self defense is learning to think and observe well. Firstly, learn to think about what your goal/purpose is in a self defense situation so that you can survive AND avoid legal red tape. You can win the 'battle' but lose the 'war' if you end up being charged because you didn't use good judgement. Secondly, train for consistency NOT complexity. KISS is the rule because stress kills coordination/fine motor skills. Thirdly, TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT, so take those good, consistent techniques and train yourself to know when and how to apply them for maximum results.

Developing good tactical thinking, good training mindset and good observational skills will mean that you 'see' better so you don't jump when you should run or vice versa.

 

[CB2379]

I just started sparring myself and so far I have to agree with what many of you have said about its use in SD. I found it is more like fighting for points than fighting in the streets. In fact, I had this same discussion with a fellow student on Monday night.

I think the backbone of sparring revolves aroudn the person's ability to control the situation they are in and be prepared for it to change at any moment. It is sorta like stepping up to the plate in baseball after getting a high and inside 95 MPH fastball thrown at your head. You have to dig in but also you don't want to dig in too much and get stuck. Someone who is ready to react to anything but also has a stable base and control of the environment they are in I think is the backbone of self-defence.

My teacher always has a great line when we talk about possible confrontations. He always says this, "if you think you'll get into trouble in a certain place (ie bar) then don't go there". His point is very simple, but right on. You can't lose a fight you don't fight! I've also heard many people who say that a fight is won and lost even before the actual fighting takes place.

The backbone of self-defence is learning to defend yourself without using your martial arts and you can do that be controlling the situation you are in and also being ready to react to anything that comes your way.

Chuck

 

[loki09789]

Does anyone remember the parable about Musashi and the student who wouldn't walk across the log? That is IMO a big part of the 'backbone'.

 

[hedgehogey]

CB: If your sparring is "going for points" you are doing it wrong. Way wrong.

Now, talking about the physical, hand to hand side of self defense, sparring is definetely the backbone.

As for "awareness", that all depends on who you're teaching. It would be very good for a bourgoise clientele, but the working class already posses those kind of skills.

 

[Zepp]

As for "awareness", that all depends on who you're teaching. It would be very good for a bourgoise clientele, but the working class already posses those kind of skills.

Well you'd hope they do, but that's not true for everyone.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Is sparring the back bone to being effective at self defense?

Backbones are in fact made of seperate vertibrae. So, instead of trying to put a title on the backbone and of course be shot down because your title did not include this or that, we must name the vertibrae with each vertibrae being vital to the construction of the over all backbone. Thus the backbone of martial arts is: Attitude, Logic, basics, and fitness(mental, perceptual, physical, emotional, and spiritual).
Fighting, sparring, or just plain dealing with the general public require all four to be at play, and a weakness in one or more will greatly reduce your chances of sucsses in any given situaion.
Sean

 

[loki09789]

CB: If your sparring is "going for points" you are doing it wrong. Way wrong.

Now, talking about the physical, hand to hand side of self defense, sparring is definetely the backbone.

As for "awareness", that all depends on who you're teaching. It would be very good for a bourgoise clientele, but the working class already posses those kind of skills.

This idea that awareness/street tactics training is 'common sense' is IMO false and I really have found that common sense isn't all that common, regardless of what job/economic strata of the clients.